tension knot

[jupija]

after 8 years had first tension knot, so im asking all of u who had it, how did u react. I was fortunate enought that i got my vented troll under control and landed while flying backwards without any injury.
So my obsrvations during this. First i opened quite high, so after the spining started i wanted to somehow clear the knot by pulling the lines appart - no go, i was still spinning, then i grabed the oposite riser and pulled to hard, so my canopy colapsed and after releasing the riser went into spin again, so i go for the other riser again, this time with feeling, and soft touch and got stable canopy. I acctually started flying bacwards into bushes, and all the time holding the riser. What i want to know from the ones who had tension knot, is this the normal to get the canopy under control or was i just lucky.
this was ws flight from an E, and i have vented troll, didnt unblocked the stearing lines.

[Phegs]

I had my first tension knot two weeks ago. I was not as fortunate as you and was not quick enough to gain control before impacting, I am still in hospital.
My opening was fairly low but on heading, it then began rapid revolutions to the left. Without unzipping or cutting away my wings I managed to get to my rear risers and tried to stop the spin but impacted hard. So compared to me, you were lucky but I don’t know what the average outcome would be.
On opening this canopy (old unvented fox245) would sometimes open in a stall and as the slider would come down it would surge foreword then rock back one more time. I believe in this sequence it would allow lines to lose tension and wrap others.
What do you think caused yours?
Paul
_____________________________
The laws of gravity are strictly enforced

[mknutson]

I had my first tension knot two weeks ago. I was not as fortunate as you and was not quick enough to gain control before impacting, I am still in hospital.
My opening was fairly low but on heading, it then began rapid revolutions to the left. Without unzipping or cutting away my wings I managed to get to my rear risers and tried to stop the spin but impacted hard. So compared to me, you were lucky but I don’t know what the average outcome would be.
On opening this canopy (old unvented fox245) would sometimes open in a stall and as the slider would come down it would surge foreword then rock back one more time. I believe in this sequence it would allow lines to lose tension and wrap others.
What do you think caused yours?
Paul
_____________________________
The laws of gravity are strictly enforced

I wish someone has video of this. It would be great to share with everyone.

[hamsandwich]

Your brake setting was too deep for going slider up with.




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[nicknitro71]

To reduce the chances of getting line knots:

-Don't jump!
-Maintain line tension while packing
-Be neat while packing
-Use a tailgate, two wraps slider up, three wraps slider down, or masking tape if no rubber
-Use the correct brake setting
-As a manufacturer, reduce the bulk of the attachment point between upper and lower control lines
-As a manufacturer, upper control lines shall skip no half-cell
-As a manufacturer, control all cascade points so that there is no interaction
-Replace lines when no longer "shinny" looking (one set should last about 500 jumps)
-Don't do it, don't jump!

[Flying_Mike_D]

Tailgate with slider up??? Maybe I'm a retard (which is probably the case and Abbie can attest to), I've never done a slider up jump so I was always under the impression that you don't use a tailgate when packing slider up? Maybe I missed something somewhere, I've got Johnny Utah's BASE packing video laying around somewhere, I may have to review it again.

I hope I'm just retarded and tired while I type this.

[nicknitro71]

The only problem could be if you're using a large-hole mash slider...the tailgate could hang up in one of the holes...unlikely but a possibility.

Lots of jumpers have been experimenting with slider up and tailgate with great success. In Europe they favor masking tape.

I'd use two wraps not three wen up. In the Tarpus owners manual I will recommend the use of the tailgate regardless where the slider is.

Most tandem canopies could also benefit from a tailgate especially those w/out brake settings.

[mknutson]

The only problem could be if you're using a large-hole mash slider...the tailgate could hang up in one of the holes...unlikely but a possibility.

Lots of jumpers have been experimenting with slider up and tailgate with great success. In Europe they favor masking tape.

I'd use two wraps not three wen up. In the Tarpus owners manual I will recommend the use of the tailgate regardless where the slider is.

Most tandem canopies could also benefit from a tailgate especially those w/out brake settings.

I have always been under the impression that a tailgate while slider up is bad because it will cause too long of a slider delay. I have seen it on my own jumps where a tailgate cause an extra delay which was only OK because I was on the large Greeny.

[hamsandwich]

Stone you still need to come down and spend a few days with me like we discussed.


I use masking tape (and for those with the extra chromasome-- ABOVE THE SLIDER), around the brakelines and inner D's. I exclude the inner C's becuase I use one of the C's to hold a rubberband that stows the slider (most call this a direct stow).

With almost everyone now using small hole mesh, you can use a tailgate and it won't get caught up in the slider.

Some people sew the tailgate on to the slider. I don't like this, as I don't want my reefing mechanism to be freefloating.

The slider does a great job reefing but, but while rare, slider-up lineovers do happen. Take precautions.



-a

[hamsandwich]

Stone you still need to come down and spend a few days with me like we discussed.


I use masking tape (and for those with the extra chromasome-- ABOVE THE SLIDER), around the brakelines and inner D's. I exclude the inner C's becuase I use one of the C's to hold a rubberband that stows the slider (most call this a direct stow).

With almost everyone now using small hole mesh, you can use a tailgate and it won't get caught up in the slider.

Some people sew the tailgate on to the slider. I don't like this, as I don't want my reefing mechanism to be freefloating.

The slider does a great job reefing but, but while rare, slider-up lineovers do happen. Take precautions.



-a

[Flying_Mike_D]

I knew some of the guys doing wingsuit BASE in Europe were using the masking tape trick but I didn't think a tailgate was very commonly used for slider up jumps here in the U.S. I was thinking about people that I've talked to jumping large A and E here.

Well, learn something new everyday I guess. I'll have to take a look at Johnny's video because I'm pretty sure he removed the tailgate when packing slider up.

Abbie, we've been saying this for a year and half now! Lol, one day my friend, one day we'll spend doing all that crap we talked about. Until then I'm going to go slave away for the man being a bus driver.

[nicknitro71]

Just remember the basics: Slider down packed go three wraps, slider up and unpacked go two wraps, tan bands only, fuck the back ones and the lark-heads too.

[Zoter]

knew some of the guys doing wingsuit BASE in Europe were using the masking tape trick but I didn't think a tailgate was very commonly used for slider up jumps here in the U.S.

Its not particularly common in Europe either.
Most jumpers I see packing are not using tailgates/tape ...slider up.....just slider down.

I agree with the advice of keeping your line tension 'tight' during packing ...especially when stowing the lines.
Also...if you care about tension knots......run your brakes lines down during every pack job and undo ANY twists...even just one.

[cresTfall]

I had a similar experience this August from the high nose. I had an uneventful flight with my prodigy and a stable deployment with an ACE that had the old steering line configuration. Once the slider was all of the way down I started in a pretty fast diving turn. Based on feel and video analysis, I would equate it approximately to having a toggle buried, predictable and consistent but fast. I slowly countered with the other riser until I achieved a flat, slow spin. I did my best PLF, got right up and walked away with little more than a grass stain. I feel very fortunate that I was out in the middle of a field, over grass. Upon inspection, it was an inner "long" steering line that caused the malfunction and had looped D and C lines. I felt lucky that the slider made it past the knot, but from the video, it appears to pull further on the malfunctioned side after the slider passes and increase the turn rate. I sold that rig. I always thought that old trim was dodgy, it just gave me an uncertain feeling that I continually denied. I'll stick with the newer blackjack. Glad to hear that you're OK.