BASE Course Comparison/Info

[space]

Okay, I can see some advantages for experienced jumpers, but I can not see this is as a good proving ground for a BASE course, and anyway aren´t those landings in the range you mentioned straight in. Penduluming shouldn´t matter IMHO as one is stabilized before secondary inflation. But I am without clue as to the type of object and wind conditions and all conjectures are useless until that is known.
take care,
space

[Jolly Jumper]

This depends on the object doesnt it?
3 of the axidents at Kjerag was because of tumbling and not reaching stability before impact on the ledge..... Even a moderate track would have saved the jumper.. The thing is, I guess, that a first timer could freeze when he/she sees some million, billion metrick tons of rock 15 m away. One of the jumpers had 3000 skydives but freezes when she tumbles. Maybe the two things should be teached as one secuens?

[space]

2 have had the outta control tumbling deaths striking the ledge. Neither were trained by the staff there, actually they worked hard to avoid training, to save money. Freezing is not the correct term,
The exits from these untrained individuals were so bad as to prevent any stability in less than 8 seconds unless they were highly skilled acrobatic jumpers. they bounced at 12-13 secs. Bottom line, they saved money. We can´t teach how one should react when freaked out by a billion tons of granite at arms reach, we can only teach them how not to be in that position in the first place. If it makes things better, I showed both of these individuals where the would die if they did what they did, and they died on the exact spot I sited them in on, I wish to say that Kjerag is a different course, I would not even bring my GF there as it is only a bandaid patch to keep skydivers from getting stillettoes on the wall prohibiting jumping altogether.
take care,
space

[guest]

What about ETHICS and BASE history? I believe that these things are very important and should be included in a course (at least included in the course literature), and would be proactive solutions to long-term problems (e.g. not naming sites, contact the locals policy, where and how to find help/contacts, etiquette, environmental considerations, legal climate, etc).

It is also important to know where the sport has been and why we are where we are and what sorts of things we must do to maintain our current position and what will help the sport move forward.

Also, what about basic first aid, self-rescue, THE PLAN, etc? BASE is about so much more than just the jump itself. Many times jumpers are faced with situations which require them to call on a wealth of experience notwithstanding the experience gained in the parachuting world.

just some thoughts...
gardner

[space]

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/board/3600.html
I covered the ethics there, BASE history is par ferdecouse as most instructional venues are based on how not to make common and deadly mistakes.
Not sure about what you mean by the redundant "self-rescue". Every jump is a self-rescue. The biggest obstacle in instructing is getting the students to think for themselves.
I think the first aid thingy is a very valid point. Would it be appropiate to demand that any would be student shows his redcross first aid card before acceptance in the sport?
take care,
space

[crwper]

The environment I've "grown up" in is one with a lot of 0-3 second delays. The first things I learned (taking the BR course) dealt with objects in the 300-600 foot range. Around here, that seems like a pretty good starting point.

Later on, because most of our objects are actually in the 130-350 foot range, it made sense for me to learn static line techniques.

Simply because of who I am, it made sense for me to explore techniques for the 100-130 foot range.

This summer we'll be exploring some local cliffs in the 3000-foot range... But our bread-and-butter, so to speak, is still the 130-350 foot range.

I would consider techniques for objects lower than 300 feet, or higher than 600 feet, to be outside the scope of a first jump course IN OUR AREA -- I know things will be considerably different elsewhere. What do you think about teaching tracking with so high a priority in an area where almost all the jumps are 0-3 seconds, no slider?

Michael

[space]

Misunderstanding. I mean to teach my students to be all round BASErs as this will cover the exploratory mode, Tracking can be learned and improved at the DZ, That is a cool thing about skydiving. Tracking is a tool, allowing one to fix things, Make things more acceptable safetywise. 130 – 3000ft vert from a solid object is the same in the aspect that horizontal clearance is imperative. Example, In Norway, at #7 a no track will limit you to 11secs, A good track can easily double this delay possibility with absolutely no chance to have an object strike, If you did 11secs with no track, you would open up few yards above the ledge and away from the wall, (one impact was videoed at 12.7secs) assuming you had a very fast opening.
If one wants to teach one who only wants low jumps, handheld or static line, then obviously tracking has no place, But as you yourself said, exploring….Jumpers are of that nature. Best to get them the skills they need before they need the skills they don´t have.
Take care,
space

[crwper]

It took me about 50 jumps before I was comfortable going stowed from objects in the 0-3 second range... Assuming someone is learning in an area where 0-3 second delays are the norm, would you recommend:

a) That the novice use a tracking position while going hand-held?
b) That the novice go stowed right away?
c) That the novice not use a tracking position until they are comfortable going stowed?

My first 30 BASE jumps were all from spans in the 300-600 foot range, 0-3 second delay. Since they aren't solid objects, horizontal clearance is not as crucial -- except as practice for solid objects.

The only cliffs I've done so far have all been 0-3 second delays... We have one local cliff which is perhaps 800 feet to the talus, then 1500 feet of talus, from which we routinely do 2-3 second delays. There is a dihedral to the left of our launch point which cuts right and begins to restrict off-heading options on the left side around 3 seconds. In addition, there is a slight belly, or skirt, which begins to come out around 3 seconds, and comes out perhaps 50 feet in 500 feet of vertical distance. Would you say that a tracking position will make a significant difference in this case?

I should note here... I agree on the importance of a good track, but not necessarily on its relative importance with respect to things like canopy control -- which are exercised on every jump, regardless of the object. I will be spending a considerable part of my skydiving time this summer working on my track so I can use it on the big cliffs we are checking out and, comfort level permitting, on the smaller ones we have already been jumping.

I remember in BR's course, there was a tremendous amount of information... I think a part of the reason they have stopped teaching the details of jumps lower than 300 feet or higher than 600 feet in their regular course, is because otherwise the amount of information would be even more daunting than it already is... In an area where big walls are hard to find, do you think it's a good idea to add to the curriculum information which the student might not use until months or years after the course?

I agree absolutely that course contents should be well-rounded and should not reflect only what the student needs for a particular jump. But I think that's the role of the "continuing education" part -- talking with other jumpers, and learning as you go -- rather than the initial class... What do you think?

Also I'm wondering, if you are teaching your students to be well-rounded, do you also teach static line techniques, although your students may not have the need of them in a big-wall-dominated environment?

Thanks, Space!

Michael

[Slim]

Don't waste your time at the DZ when you can start BASE! Even dogs here BASE jump with no prior skydiving experience. If you have your "A" licence then your "Advanced" - You are well equiped for the 200 foot FF's your likely to make in your first fifty BASE jumps assuming you aren't a "Soft C*ck".

All you need is a Pooster inside the "Harvey Wall banger" container that you must pay twice as much for as every "NEWBIE" gets ripped off - IT'S TRADITION! Equip yourself with chinese saftey boots (Thongs) and impact resistant board shorts and your "Hot Sh1t!" Aussie style.

You should be able to find one of your mates with 10 jumps to give you the comprehensive run down on what to do and then get a healthy grilling from your other mates about the size of your testicles and this should see you well prepared for your first jump.

As a large group chants "Bounce!, Bounce, Bounce!" take your maiden voyage into freefall. With typical Ozzie luck you'll probably avert the same disater as the Titanic but you'll likely cream into a tree.(These are always considered an "out" by students)

For further gear advice continue to ask your mate - as remember - he will have 1 jump more now too and therefore that much more experience!

Don't let a few object strikes slow you down. Think of it as a "love bite" from nature. Any broken bones simply enhance your personality and you will gain respect in the group.

DON'T stuff around with any of the manufacturers. They only profess knowledge which instills fear. Cling to that testosterone melting pot and prove them all wrong as you scream your favourite war chant and charge over the edge like a freight train of nylon and male genitalia.

What happened to "HARD CORE!" anyway?

Luv SLIM
(Currently wobbling off objects making metal squeeking sounds)

[Skinflicka]

I hereby nominate Slim to be the next pres of the CJAA.

Go do something dangerous.

:o

[guest]

Slim, reading your post was like old home week. I remember those drunken "speed packing" lessons. The motel door was open and my mentor, beer foam dribbling from the corners of his mouth, cursed and frothed at me from behind the wheel of the getaway car (never his own, of course) to hurry up since the shift change at the local police station was about to start.

The reassuring words at the launch; "huh? whatever. you'll be fine. cya."

Then the congratulations at the bottom: "that's nice. did you get anything on my canopy?"

It was with pride that I followed my mentor back to the motel so I could get his ironing and shoeshines finished before the sunrise jump.

I loved learning BASE.:7

[guest]

I think this is an unfair assessment of CR's instructional ability and their motivation. Yes, the manufacturers are in it for the money, but spending time in the workshop manufacturing BASE gear is more profitable than spending man hours on instruction. The courses were developed as an avenue for people to approach the sport safely without hurting themselves, not as a money making venture. Of course you are not going to learn every minute detail from this course - did you learn everything you knew about skydiving from your first-jump course? You need to realise that the courses are in place to give you an insight and a little direction within the sport, not to teach you all there is to know about fixed object jumping. It takes dedication to become proficient and respected in the BASE jumping world - it can't be bought. Take CR's course as a doorway, get a mentor and do the necessary time required to be self-sufficient in this exclusive sport.

Blue ones
BR

[guest]

Slim where are you? Havn't heard from you in ages.
bradrock@excite.com

[guest]

I haven't heard this name in a long while. Is this originally from SA Brad Rock?

Peace

M