To List, or Not to List . . .

[guest]

I need some help deciding if the following incident should be added to the BASE fatality list.

Robert Overacker, 1995
Age 39
"Robert went over the Canadian Horseshoe Falls (Niagara falls) at approximately 12:35 p.m. on a single jet ski. He deployed an early type ballistic parachute system that is designed for ultralight A/C. The rocket pulled the bag from its container but the bag remained in tow until impact. (It appears there isn't enough drag to pull all the lines off the bag, there is no pilot chute on the system)."

I remember reading that Robert was the 50th person to attempt going over the falls using some type of “device.” And also that he is a sort of self styled stuntman (what ever that means).

The conclusion I came to originally (when it happened) is Robert isn't trying to make a BASE jump, he is trying to go over Niagara falls like so many before him. If he had lived I'm sure his boast would have been, "I just went over Niagara Falls," not, "I just made a BASE jump."

However, on the other hand, technically his using a packed parachute to save himself does make it a BASE jump.

What do you all think . . . ?

Nick
BASE 194
BASE fatality list, http://juliabell.home.att.net/

[Thomas]

Yes, think you should list this. I have had this idea also. However, in my version, a BASE specific rig is used. and it works in my version. But I will never say anything BAD about the deceased, and he tried his best. He probably ran into some of the comments and attitudes I have.
"You are going to die that way!"
" Black death, don't do it."
"I wouldn't jump it that way. Fix the velcro first. and send your rig to the manufacturer and have them fix it for you."---M. T. you know you said, and thought this.
"Doesn't look like a good idea."
Things like that, are negative. I have begun to STOP listening to negativity, because that is not what I am looking for. I have so many ideas, and when I speak with my friends about them, sometimes I hear the above mentioned comments. and when I hear negativity, I stop listening, and talking. I just go my own way.
just some thoughts........
Peace out,
Thomas Mauch :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

"When I hear enough disagreement, I turn my back on society, and walk ALONE into the desert."---Thomas M. Mauch

[guest]

This has always been the line that I've heard: a packed parachute with likelihood of death if you weren't using one. By that logic, yes. It was a deliberate act for sure. But where do you draw the line? If a person happens to use one of the building escape rigs in an emergency situation and the person frapps, what then? Would you list that as well? On the flip side of this logic, one should not necessarily log McConky's as BASE jumps. Though I suppose none of this really matters until one starts discussion additions to 'The List'.

gardner

[Faber]

I dont mean that its a BASE fatality.. if it is,is it then also a skydive when a pilot have a problem whit his jet and ejekting him?Nope,he only does it to try to keep alive,and it was not the plan when he statede the fligth.
I mean that its a BASE when you plan to jump the objekt and planing to use the parachute you have on your bag..

Have Fun!!!

[Skinflicka]

Not sure I agree.

Fixed Object Jumping. The water isn't fixed. The jet ski isn't fixed. I'd let either one on it's own slide but the two together are fairly mobile. If you were to hit a ramp with a MX bike and deploy a canopy would this be a BASE jump? The ramp is fixed. How does this differ in principle from Jason Bell taking a Go-Ped off a cliff? Well, the altitude difference is already available but other than that? Tough to decide.

I refer you to Skinflicka's 5 year old's rule:
If you ask a kid, what would the kid say?

I don't think they'd see that gag as a BASE jump. Similar, but not the same.

My vote is to keep the list pure.

You know when you're a BASE jumper and you know when you're doing a BASE jump.

Thanks for the diligence on the list, Nik. Your work is greatly appreciated.

Skin.

[Rigalo]

Yo

If I play fetch with my dog, using a tennis bal and a tennis stick, am I a tennis freak? I did not wear any white pants, or sweat belts, (the dog does, but he is still alive, nor does he want to be listed on the 'Great Tennis Freaks X-List', so lets leave him out). So? Am I a 'Great X Tennis Freak'?

R

[imported_Tom Aiello]

"Published for its Educational, Historical, and Memorial Value . . ."

Using the subtitle above as a guideline, I would think that a McConkey fatality should be listed, even though it would fail to meet the original "packed rig" criteria. Because it is a type of jump that BASE jumpers are now trying, any resulting fatality should be included on the list for:

Education: So that future jumpers know the danger of it.
History: So that we all share this emerging sub-discipline.
Memorial: To remember a BASE jumper.

The memorial purpose could be met by simply including it on the "outside the sport" list.

However, as McConkey, and other unpacked, jumps appear to be the fad of the moment, I feel that the historical and educational purposes require their inclusion. Since many jumpers are engaging in them (or interested in trying them), we should include them, as a point of reference (or perhaps a warning), and certainly as part of our future history ("remember back when all them guys kept trying to jump without packing for a couple years?") for jumpers considering them.

BASE is not a static activity. It grows, just as we do. It changes, just as we do. Because it grows in a direction that the first jumpers had not expected does not mean that it has ceased to be BASE. If it did, we'd have to disqualify all kinds of modern BASE jumps as too removed from the jumps the founders made.

How does all this bear on the original jetski question? Not at all. Sorry for the digression.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[Skinflicka]

Yeah. What he said...probably.

[guest]

No thanks, not a BASE jump, stupid jet-ski trick.

I was watching some drag-racing the other day. That's where a bunch of homo's put on girl clothes, and then drive real fast, no. They were racing these monster cars, engines bigger than a house. Anyway, these guys go tearing down the track, one car gets all squirly, and gets pitched to the right. The car hits the k-rail, then gets airborne, we are talking some serious air, he was like twenty-six feet off the ground and still going up, when his balistic parachute deployed. He crashed, and died, the parachute did not save him. Was it a BASE death? No, stupid car trick.

Thanks for your effort Nick, please, let's not get sidetracked.

[guest]

That's:
6 NO
2 Yes
1 Not Sure

Jean told me about a conversation Carl Boenish had with Phil Smith and Phil Mayfield right before Phil Smith became BASE number 1. They had already hashed out what the four object categories would be and how to define them (a combination of geometric shape and to a lesser extent how winds effect that shape).

"After that, the closest they got," Jean said, "to defining what an actual BASE jump is, is this: Any intentional jump from a fixed object using a packed parachute to prevent serious injury or death."

However, I thought, if we get hung up on the word "fixed" what do we do with cable car, automobile, truck and train jumps? I think Carl's idea of "fixed" simply meant a parachute jump not from an aircraft. I don't think Carl is too interested in defining too much and he liked to say, "I just like to have fun with parachutes."

I remember sitting around a campfire at Lake Elsinore and hearing Carl say he watched Drag Racing on television just to see the parachutes work.

Now, what about Carl's and Rich Stein's early jumps where they pre-opened the skirts of round parachutes by cloths pinning them to large metal hoops attached to a bridge. They would then launch from beside this contraption and presto!

BASE Jumping or just fun with parachutes?

Robert, his jet ski, and his bazooka parachute will not be added to the list.

Thanks all . . .

Nick
BASE 194
:P

[guest]

Go on then, GIT!
Liked it better when you had fuckt off.

[guest]

Thanks Nick.

[guest]

Thanks Nick. I too don't think it was a BASE jump. As 396 said, only a stupid jet ski trick.

In my humble opinion, a McConkey is a BASE jump. But hey, to each his own.

[K]

Hey Nick!

Great job on The List...we all appreciate your efforts to keep us informed of whatall has happened...

I don't think I'd count the jet ski trick as a BASE jump. His intention wasn't to to a BASE jump, it was to go over Niagra Falls on a jet ski. I think the intention is a good place to start in judging these matters.

There are a lot of objects that we jump that don't fall into BASE. Cranes, smokestacks, balloons, to name only three, but jumping from these objects definitely count from the intention point of view.

So there's my 2 cents.

Love ya,
K

[base311]

>That's:
>6 NO
>2 Yes
>1 Not Sure

I erred in thinking that this was open to some discussion before an official vote, but by the following logic my votes, probably as you recorded them, would still stand and have made no difference. But I _had_ hoped to have some time to sway opinion before a vote. If nobody else was going to represent Mr. Overacker then I was.

Here's why:

>"After that, the closest they got," Jean said,
>"to defining what an actual BASE jump is, is
>this: Any intentional jump from a fixed object
>using a packed parachute to prevent serious
>injury or death."

if you logically and strictly construe the standing Boenish/Smith definition of a BASE jump, then Mr. Overacker is far closer to fitting the definition than anyone who might meet his or her demise performing a McConkey. Mr. Overacker intentionally jumped (a la jetski) from a fixed object with a packed parachute meant to save his life. The declaration that a jump is to be a BASE jump prior to jumping is not a part of the Boenish/Smith definition- it just says intentional jump from a fixed object with a packed parachute. Does one have to be mindful that something falls into the definition of a BASE jump for it to be counted as such?? Does it say anything about having the necessary technical skills to have a chance of surviving? No. It just says intentional jump, fixed object, packed rig. Just out of curiosity, what about Tim Rigby's "XXX" stunt? They're similar in a way - if you want to argue the 'transportation-as-a-means-to-jump-not-being-a-base-jump' angle. How do you suppose Mr. Rigby logged that jump? How would you(I'm speaking to everyone who reads this board - not just you, Nick)? Further, Mr. Overacker's jump even had some criminal element to it... that's worth something, no? I just think if you're going to be flexible enough to log a McConkey as a BASE jump based upon the standing definition (and place a McConkey fatality on "The List" when it happens), then surely you have to be flexible enough to record Mr. Overacker's jump as a BASE jump. At least give it mention, perhaps with a note of the BASE community's discussion regarding the decision. That would keep him out of our statistics.

On the McConkey: I think they ought to be logged as BASE jumps, and would propose a modification of the formal definition to make it official. Here's why: though there is no statement of intent regarding the definition-making of Boenish/Smith, I believe the reason they used the words, "packed parachute" was to exclude a paraglider-style launch being recorded as a BASE jump. The McConkey is a different animal. There is a moment when the jumper is in freefall, and there's no going back (how many paragliders have you seen start off down the hill and stop when things weren't going well? I DO realize that the ability to stop is not always available to a paraglider, but it is never available in a McConkey-style launch).

What say you all? And would this be a USBA decision? How would we officially change it? Does is really matter unless it only concerns additions to The List?

Gardner