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About LinkBacksJJ, please drop me an e, I would like to talk to you about some inappropriate video you were showing at a party. Shame on you.
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February 25th, 2003 JJ, please drop me an e, I would like to talk to you about some inappropriate video you were showing at a party. Shame on you.
February 25th, 2003 Give me an email address and I'll explain what happened.
JJ
:-)
February 25th, 2003 Oh, the hell with it. I'll explain it right here and see what type of reactions I get.
I recently showed a "carnage video" with several people going in on some BASE jumps and a bunch of malfunctions/180s - at a California DZ after a day of jumping about three weeks ago. Before I showed the video, I told everyone what was on it and instructed those who did not want to watch it, to leave the room. Of course nobody left and I proceeded to show the tape on the big screen TV. After the second death on the tape, people began to get a bit perturbed and the manager of the DZ told me to turn it off - after which I immediately did so and apologized to the manager. He said he saw the value in the tape for those who wanted to get into BASE, but also said there were some people who should not have seen it - ie. skydivers and AFF students - and that my presentation of the video was a bit on the raw side - of which I must agree since I've personally seen or been on the scene when 6 people "went in" over the past 9 months, and watched this video about 100 times. I agreed with him and everything was hunky dory.
That night after it all went down, there were several people who still wanted to see the tape so I showed them on my PC 9. Two weeks later, I was at the same DZ and there was some pretty heavy drinking going on by most everyone there - me excluded. A few more people came up to me and asked if I could show them the tape. After some persistent nagging by said people, I busted out the tape, turned the TV away from the room and showed it to those few people. As we were watching the tape, some skydivers came up and I promptly shut the TV off. I then told them what was on the tape and strongly urged them to leave if they did not want to see it. Of course they did not leave and during this showing, one of the skydivers left the room and went to tell the manager. We finished watching the tape and as I was walking away, the manger came up to me and told me not to ever show that tape there again, after which I told him it would never again enter the premises, and again I apologized.
My opinion is that if skydivers/BASE jumpers can't stomach watching this on TV, maybe they should rethink if they should continue skydiving or BASE jumping. This can happen to anyone at anytime - just like you could have an anursim or get hit by a truck at any time - not that you should watch videos of people dying from this. But I personally believe EVERYONE who BASE jumps should see the tape and learn from the mistakes of those who have passed on due to their OWN error - this is a great learning tool and a great "warning" tool for baby BASErs too. It really is a brutal sport and those who profess otherwise should get their heads checked. As for the skydivers who saw the tape, it's too bad you allowed yourselves to be subjected to it, but I warned you and I don't believe you can place blame on me for what you saw.
JJ
:-)
February 25th, 2003 Shoot me an email at:
Death_is_a_part_of_life_so_be_ready_for_it_and_acc ept_it_because
...believe_it_or_not_it_is_gonna_happen_to_me_and_ you@JJ.org
OR
Death_sucks_because_of_our_own_selfishness@JJ.com
We all deal with death in our own way...
JJ
:-)
February 25th, 2003 Bull#### asshole!
Do you think any of the decesased would approve of you showing the video you have collected of their deaths?
Is this a commercial for your student program?
Do you really think this is a learning tool or are you just a sick #### getting off on the morbid attention?
Does each viewing equate to 100 skydives? Watch it a few times and you really only need 10 skydives to get started.
Does anybody else out there object to being on jj's death video collection to be viewed at any time, any place, by any group of strangers.
JJ isn't time for you to drift out of town...
February 25th, 2003 I'm a disinterested third party in this situation but I did want to make one comment.
When I was an earger BASE pup, a friend showed me a carnage video even though he took some risk in doing so. It was deeply educational for me, both on a practical level (how to avoid and correct a specific mistake), and on a more spiritual level of what the consequences are for failure.
Sure, we all know that mistakes can kill us. Either witnessing fatalities or seeing video of same really drives that point home, for me at least, in a way that logic alone never could do.
Did that tape make me safer? I believe so, yes. Did I enjoy watching it? Not one bit. I'd not share such footage with non-BASERs, but I would share it with friends/student BASE jumpers.
Just my canine $0.02.
Peace,
D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
http://www.wrinko.com
February 25th, 2003 <deleted - duplicate post - sorry!>
February 25th, 2003 Don't worry about it JJ. True, death does suck. But you should not be censored for what you have seen or experienced. After all, you did tell these people what they were about to see.
If people cannot handle death, STOP watching the news.
JJ, your tape may stop some people who think BASE jumping is a romantic idea, and something where everything is fun and games.
Thanks for sharing it with the world.
February 25th, 2003 At the risk of starting more crap with my friends (Tom and I got back together today over the phone, I can't wait for the make up sex!), I have to voice my opinion.
I've seen the tape, not all of it, I'm not morbid enough to want to, and it sure didn't educate me. I always knew what would happen if I didn't pull or had a serious malfunction, no death education needed here, thank you.
I also considered at least 1 of the jumpers on the tape to be a close friend of mine. That just serves to remind me that every one of these "educational tools" has friends, family, and loved ones that would be devestated to think of video of these terrible deaths being shown to anyone who "persistently naggs" to see it. Although I never agreed that this video was any type of learning tool, I sort of understood other base jumpers viewing it, at least they knew what they were watching...but this has gone too far Jim. Educational? What did you learn from those Faces of Death videos from 6th grade slumber parties? Maybe you learned not to tickle grizzly bears or vacation in an aligator farm, but I know the only reason for watching those movies is pure morbid fascination, nothing else. You have reduced our friends and brothers and sisters of base to nothing more than a sideshow.
Just as confusing to me is why in the world would you post the names of some of the people on your tape on this forum? You know many of the people who read this board are the wives, husbands, family members and friends of the deceased. Hell, even city council members of sensitive legal sites might take offense to this sort of advertising. Do you really want base jumpers to come across as death mongering freaks after all the efforts have been made to do just the opposite? I know if I (knock on wood) end up on some tape played over and over for shock value at parties, I would be eternally PISSED OFF! After this public posting I wouldn't be surpised if you end up with a few folks looking for you and your happy tape. I don't think you appologised to the right people, the skydivers are way down the list.
You are my friend Jim, but I have strong feelings about this. I hope you re-think your views on the matter.
Rob
ps- this is not a cheap shot- Ddog, I have a feeling if your friend Nik was on the tape (and Jim wasn't staying at your house), you would have an entirely different opinion. My .10
February 25th, 2003 >Bull#### asshole!
Ok, I don't care who you are anyway.
>Do you think any of the decesased would approve of you
>showing the video you have collected of their deaths?
I don't know, they are not here to tell me. No, I did not ask their families, but as I said and as most BASE jumpers who have seen the tape have confessed to me they were thankful (I guess not you Rob) that I showed them what can happen when you don't fully understand your gear, how to pack it, and how it works, use unfamiliar gear and are uncurrent, make a stupid uncalculated jump, don't get the proper training, etc.
>Is this a commercial for your student program?
This is not a "commercial." I take this seriously because I don't want whatever happened to the deceased jumper to happen to ANYONE EVER AGAIN!
>Do you really think this is a learning tool or are you just a
>sick #### getting off on the morbid attention?
Yes, I think this is a learning tool. Yes, I think all BASE jumpers should see this tape and learn from it so they don't make the same mistake. I think this tape will open eyes and decrease the incidence of complacency. No I'm not a sick ####. I am only trying to educate BASE jumpers. Yes, I made a mistake by showing this tape at a DZ when skydivers were present. Yes, I have seen a lot of death over the last 9 months. Yes, 5 of the 6 jumpers who died jumped directly after I had. Put yourself in my shoes and wonder how you would think about death from jumping and how you would not want this to happen again.
>Does each viewing equate to 100 skydives? Watch it a few
>times and you really only need 10 skydives to get started.
No, watching this tape does not equate to 100 skydives for each viewing. If you honetly believe this you are an ignorant #%##.
Yes, if a jumper shows enough talent, interest, intellegence, and ability to listen, why shouldn't they be able to make a BASE jump? There are some excellent BASE jumpers who have made BASE jumps before they even made a skydive. BASE jumping is not skydiving.
>Does anybody else out there object to being on jj's death
>video collection to be viewed at any time, any place, by any
>group of strangers.
As I said, it was a mistake to show it at the DZ and I have apologized. If I go in on a BASE jump by making a mistake I want other BASE jumpers to learn from my mistake so this will hopefully NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Imagine I was the video editor for Parachutist magazine and it was in DVD form and the incident report - which usually has 50% deaths from low turns - showed the actual death, and ALL skydivers viewed this happening. Do you think the fatality rate from deaths due to low turns would drop? I believe it would and I would feel pretty good about effectively "saving" the lives of would be low turn victims.
My .02 cents
JJ - currently a Nor Cal resident.
:-)
February 25th, 2003 Alive Rob,
> I also considered at least 1 of the jumpers on the tape to
>be a close friend of mine.
Yeah, I knew him better than anyone over the 12 months before he died.
>Educational?
Yes, I believe it is, and we all have our own opinions don't we?
>I know the only reason for watching those movies is pure morbid >fascination, nothing else.
Yes, partly morbid fasciniation, and yes definately an educational tool.
>Do you really want base jumpers to come across as death mongering >freaks after all the efforts have been made to do just the opposite?
No, this is part of the effort to "do just the opposite." To stop BASE jumpers from repeating the same mistakes and dying.
JJ
JJ
February 25th, 2003 > ps- this is not a cheap shot- Ddog, I have a feeling if your
>friend Nik was on the tape (and Jim wasn't staying at your
>house), you would have an entirely different opinion. My .10
JJ is staying at my house? Comes as a surprise to me!
What would Nik think? I think he'd be tickled pink that we're still talking about him, and that he's still indirectly able to generate drama from afar.
Peace,
D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
http://www.wrinko.com
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/user_files/99.jpg
February 25th, 2003 Oops.
February 25th, 2003 >(I guess not you Rob)
This was not me. Perhaps others object to your actions as well.
Rob
I do however agree that this is not about "education", it's about simple respect.
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