Is Bridge Day under the new organizers a sellout of the right to privacy of participating BASE jumpers and thus bad not only for our sport but also our freedoms as Americans?

[d-dog]

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Seeing as I gave my social security number to get into an intermural softball league last week, I can't believe everyone is so worked up about this.

Lots of organizations and events ask for SSN's from participants. If I'm willing to part with it to play drunken softball in some lousy league on a couple of fridays with my roommates, why do I care if yet another government agency (get in line with the IRS, the University of California, the State Board of Equalization, the Department of Motor Vehicles, the Department of Defense, the Department of Justice, etc, etc, etc) has it.

Are any of you guys riggers? Does it bother you that you had to give your SSN to the FAA?

Basically, I'm just wondering why everyone is so worked up over a lousy nine digit number. It's just a number--it's not your soul.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[guest]

And Tom, every pilot's license # is his SSN, and every time a rigger packs a reserve, he has to put his SSN on the packing data card.

[guest]

only the last four digits

[guest]

The implications associated with the collection of data from base jumpers are very troubling. Once a list exists, it is hard to get rid of. Multiple copies, both paper and digital , will be produced and distributed during the organization and security operations. These lists will be in the hands of people that could well find them to be useful in the future and will retain them accordingly.

I never had to give my SSN for a softball league.

Try to remember where this sport comes from and where it is going.

[base311]

Tom,

do you always just give up your number so easily? I hear people whining on here about if people like me and dog are making such a big deal about this then perhaps we should look at other parts of our lives and where and to whom we give out our ssn. I think what those people don't realize is the fact that we probably don't give it up so easily to everyone else, either. Case in point: just the other day I'm signing a lease for a new apt. and the whiney little girl going through the lease papers with us needed me to fill out some form so they could call the gas company and make sure that the gas would be put in my name. I told her that I had already changed the utilities to my name. Didn't matter to her.. she still needed the form. So on the form is a place for my ssn. So I left it blank and told her there was no reason for her to have it - that the gas company could figure out if the gas had been placed in my name just fine without her having to have my ssn. She didn't argue. You'd be surprised how people knuckle under to you NOT giving them your social security number.. just as easily as the rest of you seem to knuckle under to handing it out. WHAT the hell did the parks and recreation department need with your social security number? they gonna run a credit check? Mostly people use social security numbers to identify people because it's just an outright EASY de facto national ID and probably fits their 9 digit id field in their microsoft access database they've created for their organization. you could give most folks any 9 digits and they'd happily remain blissfully ignorant of the fact that the numbers were someone elses. Truth of the matter is, if you were to ask me, or dog.. or some of the others on here who are bitching so much about this, I'd bet you'd find that they don't give their numbers out as readily as the rest of the population, either.

As dog mentioned it's MUCH easier to raise hell and get the SSN thing stopped NOW than it is to just rollover and let it happen and try to undo it. Because, as he said, it's much easier to prevent a bunch of copies going around if they're never made than it is to find and destroy all copies that are made. This is called being PROACTIVE.

Yeah, all in all, it is just a number... and I do realize that my soul is not attached to it. I'm really not afraid to give my number out; I JUST DON'T WANT TO!!! How hard is that to understand? So if I can raise hell and BITCH AND PISS AND MOAN enough to get the BDC to reconsider its actions and recede from its position of requesting the SSN in order to jump, then I won't have to give it up in the long run.

ALL OF THIS REALLY IS SILLY. But it's the law enforcement hand stirring the BDC/BD pot that is the root of all of the silliness. WHAT ever happened to a driver license (yeah, dammit, I know... some of us have our SSN's on our driver licenses (NOT ME, though, because I've been PROACTIVE ;) )). It might not matter to you, but it matters to some of us.

ANyway.. enough. later
Gardner

[d-dog]

Gardner speaks true - preventing an erosion of privacy (even a minor one) is much, much more effective than attempts to correct the problem later.

Additionally, there is a symbolic element here. The Social Security number is NOT and was NOT developed and implemented to act as a de facto national identification number. The USA does not have national IDs, for good reason: we are a confederation of states with a unifying federal government and constitution, not a homogeneous Nation. It is the United STATES of America, and here we don't do national ID. The SSN threatens to become just that without legislative debate if we let governmental (and non-governmental) agencies use it as such. This is a substantive erosion of an important privacy principle, and an important foundational principle of our democracy (namely, the primacy of state-based government save in the specific items over which the framers of our national constitution tasked the federal government with control).

The SSN was developed to track and administer, not surprisingly, Social Security payments. Any use other than that is suspect, in my mind at least. This is particularly true in a governmental context.

Finally, I don't give my SSN out easily. Yes, a PI can get it with a database search - it is not the family jewels, under lock and key. Still, the less I give it out the fewer footprints I leave, and more importantly the less likely someone is to steal it and hijack my identity. Yeah, as if someone would WANT to be me = ha! ;-)

My favorite SSN issue is going to hospitals. They always ask for it, I always say no. They say the need it for "insurance;" I give them my insurance card (or pay in cash). They sometimes say they simply cannot give service without it - I demand to see a doctor. Why in the world is an SSN needed if one is paying cash for, say an x-ray or a few stitches? No reason, just habit and that habit can cost us all if we aren't careful.

Just say no. Nicely, and firmly, but no - and explain why nicely if folks are wondering. No, I'm not an anti-governmental conspiracist. I just like to keep my life my own, unless I WANT to do otherwise. That doesn't seem like so much to ask in a so-called free country, in the foremost democracy in the world.

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

. . . who spent the weekend climbing and jumping with good friends under sunny skies and a full moon - awwwrooooooo!

[space]

Once I was riding to BD from New Orleans with JV, I agreed to drive under his suggestion even though my DL had been suspended for speeding, sleep was starting to fog my mind so I took an exit that looked handy for a wakeup 24-7 store.
Mr. Lawman pulled us over, took me in, jailed me cause I didn´t have a DL/ID and after being mugshotted with a polaroid and giving my name and DOB, 45mn later, 200usd fine, they supplied me with my SSN that I refused to tell them. JV was laughing the whole time and managed to snag the mugshot polaroid.
So something is a little strange here, It seems that though even a DOB with your name can supply your SSN. So certainly any official government approved ID with your foto on it could do the same..something to think about...ID is ID, something else is floating in the air with the BDC.
my reflections,
take care,
space

[base311]

Oh My GOD let's not even go down the federalism road.. I could bitch for months about the EPA and the DOT et al holding taxpayer money over the heads of state legislators/governors 'asking' them to pass such-and-such law or build so-and-so so we can give you this money. Of course the irs holds a gun to the head of the <insert name of state> resident so that person will pay his federal income taxes. Then, of course, the state legislators/governors tell 'the people' that, "if we don't pass this law requiring you to sacrifice your first-born in the name of EPA, then we won't get our share of YOUR tax money."

Taxpayer: "Oh... duh.. well I guess it'll be okay, then; we need the money for schools (which the local govts then piss away providing really crappy educations to students - most of whom will ultimately be swinging sling blades on the side of the highway - who don't give a crap about education in the first place)

State legislator: "This is great!!! Look at me!! I am the sponsor of a BILL that PASSED and I look like I'm doing a good job."

Governor: "Well, I don't really like the way things are playing out, but I'll bow to the pressure of the feds and the industry people (campaign contribs)who will get the contracts (money) to perform this work (build highways, put up speed limit signs, sell emissions testing equipment).

local governments: "Hey!!! we didn't get our allotment of that federal money because the distribution formula was wrong." (meanwhile they spend money they don't have on stuff they don't need to impress people they don't like) "We sure could use a new Courthouse." (what's wrong with the old one? Oh?? space? you're out of space? EVER HEARD OF MICROFICHE? duh.)

Sometimes I just want to puke. All that having been said, overall, I'd rather be here than just about anywhere else.

gardner

[imported_mknutson]

List, well what about the lists below? I think these are the worst lists of all, and you will never get rid of them, not to mention the fact theat they have your SS#:

Equifax
Experian
??? another Credit rating company (I forgot the name) ??

[guest]

'course, as Bismark said, "To retain respect
for sausages and laws, one must not watch them in the making.”

maybe it's time for me to get another job.

[crwper]

>Yeah, all in all, it is just a number... and I
>do realize that my soul is not attached to it.
>I'm really not afraid to give my number out; I
>JUST DON'T WANT TO!!! How hard is that to
>understand?

How hard is it to understand that some people just don't place the same importance in the number as you do? It's not that everyone else is folding under government pressure, or rolling over, or anything like that. It's not that they aren't pro-active. Everyone has a certain set of things they believe in, and usually when those things are challenged they will stand up for them. I respect the fact that you're standing up for something _you_ believe in, but what I have a hard time with is the perception that _everyone else_ should believe in the same thing, or else they are some kind of government puppet.

Michael

[guest]

I just want to thank you guys who are standing up for us on this SS# issue. Obviously the fate of a lonely nation hangs in the balance here. All that stands between us and the jack booted thugs of the new Gestapo is you brave freedom fighters who are standing up to this outrageous and egregious example of institutional intrusion which could become inherent and in fact, intrisic if allowed to flourish at BD.

The hobnailed boot of governmental ingomities will come crashing down on all freedom loving peoples if we don't rise up together and show we will not be beaten down by users and three time losers and government toadies.

Henceforth I am removing my license plate from my car so no one can obtain my identity that way. And I am going to print my own money so I will no longer be a tool of the capitalist oppressor society at large. And I am going to TURN IN my social security number right back to the government so no one can call me a little cog in the wheel of George Orwells government. I am going to buy me a house up on Ruby Ridge and make my final stand when the men in the black helicopters come......and at bridge day I am going to jump with no SS# given cause I will just say, :"hey, don't have one no more. Turned it back in to the feds I did."

Then I am going to wrap myself in Old Glory and jump, just hope I can get pilot chute inflation being wrapped in the flag and all.........I'm juss proud to be an american, one of the good guys. I juss hope none of you pantywaist milquetoast SSN#giveruppers get in my way at the exit point . Gotta go now I'm gettin a little choked up thinkin how close to the brink of bowing to oppression I came before being shown the light by a few good men. thank you!!~~~












;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

[guest]

If you wear a tinfoil hat, you will be immune to the mind control signals the government is broadcasting.

[guest]

LMFAO - thanks for that!

gardner

p.s. and yes, I do see the cynicism in case you find yourself wondering. you're right, I should just cave. screw it. where's my foil hat?