Media Relationships............

[imported_mknutson]

I would like to start a thread for everyone who deals with the media at any time.

I have been getting approached by media persons asking for footage and photos and stories all the time.

I have also been working with Tom Sanders at Aerial Focus to find out the correct amounts to be charging these media persons.

I am consistantly turned down because "I am too expensive" and "we are going with someone else".

If you are charging less than $1,000.00 per minute for you BASE footage, you are getting screwed in my opinion. I understand Tom gets $1,000 to $2,000 per minute and has minimum times as well. So you may have to purchase 2 or 5 minutes at least.

I would like someone to tell me if I am full of ##### in my pricing and approach to this problem. If I am correct, then I would like have reasurance when I say "Stop selling BASE Footage unless you get what it is really worth".

Every media company in the world has money to spend and they also know what Tom/Aerial Focus charges. When they say they don't have enough or any money, THEY ARE FULL OF #####!

How can a media company be in business with no money. But.....Good business does say, if you can sucker someone into giving you what you would already pay for, for free, Then you will profit more at other peoples expense!

I am not against the selling of footage for good projects, but it is getting out of hand when EVERYONE is giving it up for free or really cheep.

Feedback Please!!!


--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[Tree]

How much did you get for the piece (re-run) last night on the Yosemite protest jumps?

In Tom's case it is his business to make money off of these projects. I respect Tom's business savy to earn a living from something he loves that proves difficult to make a living from. Some people, however, aren't really in it for the money and are doing jumps for expenses and maybe just a little positive exposure. Frankly I would rather do a project free if I could have say so over the final product just for positive exposure of the sport. Actually I am doing some jumps free (free gear that is), not for TV, but for a client that will use the shots for a promotion of thier company and as a tool to keep employee morale up. They may end up sponsoring birdman jumps, my freefly team, and hopefully some demos. Most importantly it will portray la cosa nostra in a very positive light and maybe draw in some support for the access fund.

You only get screwed if you don't get what you want out of it, not what someone else would want.

Tree out

[guest]

There are 2 different types of media projects:

1. Ones with very good causes that are payed in sheer positive reflection on the BASE comunity

2. General for-profit projects like "Energizer", "BMW", "National Geographic", etc...

The first is what the 4 jumpers did to tell our side of the Yosemite story. We got no money. However, there was not a bidding war from 60 minutes II on who to get either. They knew the only 4 persons in the world that could do it.

The second is the one I am upset about. I have heard many times about how jumpers will jump for a commercial, or sell their footage and not get paid for it. This is just not right.

I would love to continue this thought, but I have a work emergency and have to depart this instance.
Sorry for TYPO's....

Mick

[guest]

I think I'm with Mick on this one.

Jumpers probably should be charging going rates for their work.

Here's why I think this:

If we act amateur (in rates, production, or actions), we will be treated as amateurs. Right now, what we need most is for the world to take us seriously, as mature, responsible, and (in the case of people selling footage) professional adults.

So, I think we ought to try to keep footage rates up, simply to maintain an atmosphere of professionalism around the sport in general. Also, it's a good idea to help our friends who are trying to work in the sport, just on general principle.

Also, I am not convinced that interviews (not footage of jumps, but interviews with the jumpers) fall into the same category. Footage of the actual jumps ought to be done professionally, filmed well, edited, and sold at industry rates. But interviews with the jumpers would seem to fall into the category of "standard journalism."

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[Tree]

I agree that if your goal is to earn an income from jumping then you need to be paid well for a high risk occupation. To do a good jump project well, including covering all of the legal requirements, government compliance, reasonable insurance policies, and high quality equipment,needed consultants, demands that a reasonable fee be paid. Were normal fees are not being paid jumpers are probably not covering all the bases and black death looms large over such projects. Since this isn't an industry per se, any buyer that can find someone who will jump for cheap is taking chances, as is the jumper. Those who wish to buy high quality products and have them managed and deliverd professionally will go with experienced producers like Tom S. They are willing to pay because they can't get what they want from Joe Base, even if he will do it for a song. THe willingness of jumpers to sell cheap footage will always equal the the size of the market of buyers of same. Caveat emptor rules: Let the buyer beware.

I personally would love it if there were buyers lined up to pay us well for what we do. I would ditch my suit and tie in a second if the market would bear lots of highly paid professional base jumpers. Only those who have dedicated themselves to earning a living in the sport for years are likely to ever earn a good living off of it.

Best of luck to all. The market is huge, you just have to sell people on the value of doing it right.

Tree out

[guest]

B.A.S.E specific footage in the UK is worth around £2500 per used minute(thats on screen post production time).

You will,however,struggle to achieve that fee if you are only dealing with a production company.If its one of the channels then it shouldnt be a problem.

The other thing that needs to be looked at is the licensing agreement...most companies if they buy your footage will want perpetuity rights on it,this will allow them to sell it to whoever they like and show it as many times as they like,at no benefit to the artist/jumper/videoman whatever we see ourselves as.

My advice would be to look at the job carefully,if its going to be pro BASE and the TV guys are going to film your jumps then you might want to consider a swap,thats if they are reluctant to cough up.

If it is a "real TV" style affair then get a contract,a lawyer or someone to sell it for you.Leo Dickinson will sell your footage in the UK for a percentage...the people like Leo and Tom Sanders are the guys with the contacts and knowhow its better to get a percentage of something rather than have the TV people fleece you down to your inexperience.

The last alternative is to tell them to go do a long delay off a low cliff,because BAD PR is remembered longer than good.

Any way if anyone wants to buy some stuff...drop me a line,if you are looking to sell...happy hunting.

[jason]

I understand your arguement, but it's probably not going to change anything. Cameras are cheap, more and more people are base jumping, and more people are selling or giving away their video. It *isn't* that hard to get interesting base video (from the public's perspective). But it is hard to get unique footage that is beyond whatever the average Joe can capture.
Asking everyone to charge a specific rate for all base videos is just like asking all BASE jumpers to only jump legal sites. It probably won't ever happen. We have to roll with the punches and outwit the other guy.

I'm in the same game as you Mick. I get contacted for BASE video/photos and the offers are lame sometimes. Hold onto the good stuff for the right time and money.

If you have GOOD base video, they will pay you for it.


Jason Bell
321CYA Productions
base428

[jason]

I understand your arguement, but it's probably not going to change anything. Cameras are cheap, more and more people are base jumping, and more people are selling or giving away their video. It *isn't* that hard to get interesting base video (from the public's perspective). But it is hard to get unique footage that is beyond whatever the average Joe can capture.
Asking everyone to charge a specific rate for all base videos is just like asking all BASE jumpers to only jump legal sites. It probably won't ever happen. We have to roll with the punches and outwit the other guy.

I'm in the same game as you Mick. I get contacted for BASE video/photos and the offers are lame sometimes. Hold onto the good stuff for the right time and money.

If you have GOOD base video, they will pay you for it.


Jason Bell
321CYA Productions (http://www.321cya.com)
base428

[imported_mknutson]

My argument is this:
I agree that anyone who leaps off with a camera can send that footage away, but why on earth would any jumper be giving away something that they could get paid for. The problem comes that because a few people give it away, they expect everyone to give it away.

If you are a jumper who really wants to have your footage shown and really don't care about money. That is fine as a real human being. But most media people are not real human in their actions. So instead of paying you hundreds or thousands of dollars for footage, they get a bonus check because the suckered you into it!

This money could buy you a new rig, camera etc...

Now I am not advocating the selling of CARNAGE, or things that would make the BASE community look really bad, I am talking about things like BMW, Mountain Dew, People Magazine etc.... Aerial Focus has worked with these companies and has successfully received the kind of money I am talking about.

Even RealTV pays these rates to Tom. Do you think he gives away his footage to some scum bag at RealTV for free? Hell no! He get's what the footage is worth.

They usually bitch and cry about having to pay it, and tell him they don't have the money, but who in the world has had more companies like RealTV come back again and again? Aerial Focus.

This is just something I wish we could all get more out of the footage we spend every last dollar to create. And not let the medai profit from our ignorance of the industry.

--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[guest]

Nice one Mick....If we...the jumpers,set a standard,then we the jumpers will get paid the(or our) going rate.These media clowns do not appreciate the value of what we do....if they dont want to pay then bring them to the exit point and ask them to look (or hang) over and film from there!!!See how many takers you get.

As I have already said...this footage is worth $3000+ per used minute,set a minimum purchase price of say two or three uncut minutes at say $300 a minute,then put a stopwatch on the final cut..with say a minimum 30 second buy clause...(get a lawyer).

Your life is in your hands on tape...dont sell yourself short!!!


Safe landings

Sean

[Nick]

Hello Mick,

Okay, here's some feedback . . . er, maybe more of a flashback.

The hot afternoon winds are swirling at Lake Elsinore and I'm trying to keep my 22-foot Piglet II from being blown away. It's August, late 1970 something.

"Put it under the packing table, like this," says a fellow I didn't know. (He had with him a white Bell motorcycle helmet with a movie camera stuck on top). "I heard you just made your 100th jump, that's real cool," he offered, while sticking out a hand.

Oh, I was basking in the glory of it all.

But it didn't last long. A fellow that was part of the group I'd just made a jump with came up to us. His name is Tom Start. "You fly like a friggin toad!" He began. "You gotta loosen up. You gotta stop flying like a god damn piece of wood. For Christ Sakes, you gotta fly your body, man!"

In looking down trying to avoid his gaze I spy dried whip cream on my harness. I wonder if the stain would cause me a monetary loss cause I'm selling my gear. Why not? It was obvious I was wasting my time. I would never be a good skydiver.

"Go over the hill!" (The way Perris Valley is referred to in those days) and he is shouting now because he thinks I'm not paying attention. "Those people over the hill are in your skill range (he means toads, like me) and spend a year or two there and then *maybe* you can come back here and get on the *hot loads*!"

There is a hammering noise coming from somewhere over his shoulder and I look that way. Some guy is putting together a small wooden stand. He's fighting with small sheets of plywood in the wind. Just like me, I thought, pissing in the wind.

Tom Start signed my logbook, threw it onto the packing table, and walked off.

I was crushed. This was to be my big day. My 100th jump on a round parachute. The day I would finally be allowed to jump a square. The day I would feel like *one of them.* But all I could think about is quitting.

"Never mind him." It was the camera guy again. "They do that to all the new guys. My name is Carl Boenish, what's yours?"

Carl Boenish! Of course I knew the name. I had seen all his movies. Movies like "Sky Capers" and "Masters of the Sky" These were the classics!

And because I needed someone to talk to just then I spilled my entire history to him. And he listened and said wow in all the appropriate places. (A trait he was known for). How I just gotten out of the Marine Corps with about 90 jumps. How my job in the Corps was as a Photographer and how I so much wanted to jump and take photographs like he did. But it was all over now because I sucked.

"You got it all wrong!" Carl said to me. "Nobody becomes a skydiver in a hundred jumps." And it's then I hear that laugh of his for the very first time. It sounds like a car motor starting and it startles me at first.

"Just when I think I have some skill figured out," Carl says, "skydiving throws me a curve, and I feel as if I know nothing about it at all. Just stick with it. In fact," he said, "come over here and let me introduce you to someone."

So we walked, with me a respectful distance behind and to the right. We were heading for that small wooden stand were all the hammering was coming from. There we find a slender light haired fellow with a hammer in his hand and wood nails in his mouth. "Nick, this is Tom Sanders. Tom just made his hundredth jump not too long back."

"Hello." He said.
"Hello." I said.

And so it came to be that while I held the plywood in place Tom Sanders hammered in the nails. The finishing touch is a small sign he puts up. It reads, "SPORT SHOTS."

The deal, he told me, was for ten dollars he provided the static line first jump students with an 8x10 B&W photo of their exits. On the Cessna he had a 35mm camera mounted on the strut. In the DC-3 he shot from an open window just forward of the door. (I'm not completly sure, but I don't think that at this point he'd ever actually jumped with a camera).

On jumping he said, "It scares me too!" But I thought he was just trying to make me feel better. And it wasn't until twenty years later that Tommy candidly told everyone all about how terrified he truly was of jumping.

I borrowed, okay stole, Tommy's idea, and did the same thing he was doing at another DZ in San Diego. But I only did it for a few years. As my skills as a jumper slowly improved I gravitated toward instructing. My empathy for students coming from my own failures, and my thinking that no one learning to jump should ever be made to feel like dirt.

The point here is: Tom stuck with his skydiving photography. And in those days it wasn't very easy or very lucrative. I believe he deserves every success he's ever had. And more to the point he's showing you other BASE photographers how to go about selling your stuff. If you are undercutting his prices you're spitting in the soup we all have to eat.

In a perfect world (Ha!) We'd all send our stuff to Tommy and let him be the clearing house for all media requests. (Not sure if he'd agree or would have the time and energy for this.)

Tom would essentially be our *agent* and everyone would get more money and the Media Dogs would pay the price. (Remember, it's not the fact that they have a ton of money, it's simply that they are making money with your stuff.) And wouldn't it be great to say to the media, "Yes, I do have that particular piece of footage, however, you'll have to talk to my agent!"

And, I know from experience, having Tom Sanders say he's sending you a check is like money in the bank.

BTW, Just so you don't get the wrong idea about Tom Start, I did get to know him a bit better later on and have always liked him. A few years after the "talking to" he gave me, he went with Carl Boenish to Yosemite and became the third man to make a "modern" BASE jump!

Nick
BASE 194
:-)

[base311]

I love reading stuff like this... when's the book gonna be finished? Please tell more stories like this at every available opportunity. Thanks.

C-ya!
Gardner Sapp

[guest]

>My argument is this:
>, but why on earth would any jumper be giving away something
>that they could get paid for.>>

well just an FYI...my limited BASE experience has been primarily motivated by the more "exotic?" jumps (Angel Falls, Sotano, Kjerag, etc., attempts at others that cannot be mentioned until their done !)...but I calculated it out and my cost has been in excess of $8,000 per minute of BASE freefall (including gear, cameras and travel expenses)...compared to skydiving where and HOUR of freefall costs about $1,200/hr (or $20 a minute) (approx, with gear and lift tickets)

so use this data when selling footage IMO....to those who are into selling footage good for you, but get the $$...some sell footage for $$, some do it for fame...why not for both? (if you are into the media and all).....peace...Jeff