Insurance - Everyone Please Respond

[guest]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-00 AT 12:52 PM (PST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-00 AT 12:48*PM (PST)[/font]

A question for everyone...

Please post here, or respond to me via email (tbaiello@ucdavis.edu).

Please note that this discussion is only about legal BASE (but might help to legalize BASE on some public lands, and protect it on others).

Here's the thought.

Many land managers object to legal BASE on their lands due to possible rescue costs.

I am a member of the American Alpine Club, which insures me for rescue costs incurred while climbing.

What if the CJAA, USBA, or some other BASE organization insured it's members for rescue costs due to BASE?

I have spent the morning researching this (talking mostly to the AAC's insurance carrier). It's totally feasible. Worldwide coverage that would be more than sufficient to satisfy most land managers ($100,000 per accident, $300,000 yearly, $1000 deductible) would cost us around $200 per person per year, if we had 200 or so members with insurance.

It strikes me that getting ourselves insured would be a good way to enhance our respectablity, and show our good faith toward the people (like Grand County SAR) who want to let us jump, but can't afford to keep paying for our mistakes.

It should also be possible to get insurance for "limited" uses that would cost less (for example, insurance only good for Grand County, Utah, or insurance only for the two weeks of your trip).

Here are the questions:

1) If such insurance was available, and cost a around $200/yr for global coverage, would you purchase it?

2) If such insurance was available on a per day basis (i.e. pay $50 per day for Yosemite rescue insurance), would you buy it?

3) How much would you be willing to pay for insurance, on both a per day and per year basis?

4) If you are currently in the leadership of one of our various alphabetic organizations (CJAA, USBA, IPBC, etc) would you consider this a useful adition to your organization?

5) If you are involved in the legalization issues (particularly in Moab, but elsewhere also), do you think this would help us push our case with land mangers?

6) If you live (or better yet, operate a BASE business) near a legal site, would you be willing to administer (i.e. sell policies and interface with the SAR people on reimbursement) insurance?

Once I've gotten enough feedback from folks, I'll send in some forms and get a concrete quote on how much this would cost, then let everyone know.

Please help me out.

Conversely, feel free to flame me. I'm sure I can take it. (I can already hear "We are freedom fighters! We will never sell out and buy insurance! We will tar and feather you for even suggesting it!")

Thanks,

--Tom Aiello

[guest]

Hey Tom,

You make too much sense, please refrain from using logic on this board. I can't see how it would be a bad idea. I would pay it. Can I use retroactively (my insurance already paid mine)I'll tell you more when I see you in AZ friday.

Cya,

Tree

[web]

excellent idea...where can i view the particulars of your AAC policy to get a better idea of what's covered? how much do you pay for your coverage? is it less than the proposed $200 because of the greater number of climbers participating? will it cover you in the event of a BASE mishap?

[guest]

One of the best suggestions I've heard yet.
in terms of getting access, it eliminates
the big who's going to pay to rescue you
people.

c-ya

[guest]

I already have overpriced health insurance but count me in if it helps base jumper credibility/responsibility in the eyes of the public or officials. And to help to maintain access.

[guest]

Extend it to everyone in Moab, Tom.

COnsider this:

Set up a framewortk such as the one you described, but not just for BASE jumpers -- for _every_ extreme athlete or even hiker in the Moab area.

Sheriff Nyland ain't worldwide; he's in Moab. Grand COunty SAR doesn't operate worldwide; it operates in Moab.

And BASE jumpers are just a small portion of what SAR does in Moab, sooooo....

Instead of CJAA and BASE outfitters running this show, let's get all the sports together and see if we can make this happen.

THen it becomes a model for other places.

Moab presents a unique opportunity, though, so it's a perfect place to start.

Bikers, climbers, BASE jumpers and water sports people... they can buy a weekly, monthly, or year-round insurance pass/ rescue insurance, just like people can already buys "parks passes" of various lengths and costs for state and national parks.

But not $200 per year. Too much. We need a rate that encourages people to pay it, not avoid paying it -- and the way to reduce the cost is to increase the nu7mber of premium payers, i.e., by expanding it to include all extreme sports enthusiasts who come to Moab.

Because SHeriff Nyland is doing _exactly_ what the NPS did 20 years ago: He already has enough to do with his SAR without worrying about the "new guys" so he wants to restricxt the new guys instead of finsding a fair and equitable and NON_DISCRIMINATORY solution that is holistic instead of prejudiced in its approach.

So, great work, Tom, but think bigger. As a member of the Alpine Club, you know that it's not just climbers who benefit, but everyone who plays in "the alpine."

And another thing I'd do.... establish it so that, if you pay your insurance premium, you get rescued for free, but if you _don't_ pay the premium, you are liable for up to $1,000 of the rescue costs, or 10 percent, whichever is more (or less).


How does this sound???

Robin Heid

[guest]

i also have my own insurance but i dont think it would cover base so sounds like a good plan to me. i'd pay the $200!!

[guest]

The AAC web site has some details:

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/index.htm

Click on the Rescue Insurance link.

The AAC insurance doesn't actually cover as much as I'm thinking we'd want BASE insurance to cover (it's got a much lower coverage amount, as well as lower deductibles--but you get it with AAC membership, and the whole deal is less than $100/yr).

Although I'm uncertain if it would cover a BASE accident (I've had neither occasion to use it, nor a BASE mishap requiring rescue), I'd guess no (but I'll check into it). If the AAC would cover BASE, then all we'd have to do is get everyone to join the AAC (although that probably wouldn't help our lobbying efforts nearly as much as having a BASE insurance plan).

--Tom Aiello

[bps]

Tom -

Excellent idea!

Sorry for the short response - my time is very limited this week. But I would love to help you in the development of this idea.

It sure is great to see jumpers taking a proactive role in the development of our sport on the legal side of the house.

How about some more input from some of the vintage jumpers in our community...ie. Dennis, Harry, Adam, Todd, Nick, Anne.

The young blood in our sport is full of piss and vinegar and is ready to push our sport to the next level, but we would love to hear input from those that have been there before. (and still are! I'm not trying to make you guys sound like old dinosaurs.) :-)

C-ya!

Bryan

[guest]

Sounds great, I would pay 200.

[guest]

Insurance for rescue costs. Sounds like common sense. Seems like the media angle on high risk activities always centers around the taxpayer footing the bill. John Q Public taxpayer only cares about how BASE jumping impacts him personally, not the activity itself. Mandatory insurance to protect the parks from this expense would completely undermine the only credible objection to BASE in these settings, and it would be reflected in public opinion on the issue.

I think the prices you mentioned are very reasonable. The "per week" policy should definately be used to supplement the annual for those whose visits to legal sites are occasional.

Surely this avenue must have been pursued in the past?

[Iiro]

A very good idea.
I'm not a US citizen, so i'm wondering, if there would be difficulties for us, jumpers from Europe, to buy one. Would the 200$ insurance cover only the rescue costs, or would it pay for jumpers hospital bills too? I'm willing to pay anywhere up to 500$ for that.

[guest]

$200 is nothing for a year's cover for BASE. In the UK I'm paying roughly $120 for a worldwide skydiving policy with "No BASE" written all over it.

Jules

[guest]

Really great idea. Will Oxx was looking into this a few years ago. He would be a good person to ask. Switzerland has a similar organization called Rega which I belong to for a donation of $20.00 per year, not bad ha. Rega is a helicopter rescue service only. That is from the site to the
hospital.

Rega covers everyone in all walks of life, including those who just wonder off the trail without water.

Anne
Basic Research

[guest]

"We are freedom fighters! We will never sell out and buy insurance! We will tar and feather you for even suggesting it!"

Just kidding - actually a great idea!