Skyflyer or GTI?????

[guest]

I am going to order a wingsuit and need to figure out which one to get. Eventually I will be using it for base jumping. Which one should I get? Which is better for base? I have been getting completely mixed advice from everyone. Many say that the GTI is better for base because it starts flying sooner. Is this true or is it just that the Skyflyer is newer and people haven't dialed it in totally yet? People say that the Skyflyer is harder to learn how to fly and is more touchy and therefore is not as safe for base. However, it looks so much faster from what I have seen and looks to me like the way to go as long as I learn how to fly it well skydiving first. I have heard rumors that they try to sell you the GTI first so that you eventually come back and buy a Skyflyer later and therefore get you for two instead of one. I don't want to buy a GTI if it really isn't necessary. I would really appreciate some advice from some of you who know how to fly both well. Thanks.

[imported_mknutson]

This is just MY opinion and experience:
I got a Skyfler after my classic. I had about 15 base jumps on my classic.
Then I put around 75 skydives on my skyflyer before going to Europe to jump it.
Well, I could never get it flying any better then my classic. Sommetimes my classic seemed better. After talking with BM, they say that the skyflyer is very touchy.

I think Either your body is made to fly the suit, or not. My body was not. So I dumped the skyflyer, and got a GTi. But about 100 more skydives first.
On the 1st jump, I went from maxing at around 108 seconds on the skyflyer, to over 120 seconds without trying.
I did notice that my ground distance was not as fast, but my hang time was greater.

I then took it to Europe last summer, and was outdistancing every jump I did previously with the Skyflyer.
It is just easier to handle, as much or more hang time, and inflates well on a low altitude jump.

My opinion would be to get a GTi and put about 100 BASE jumps on it. At that time, If you still like flying, and feel you need more, then demo a skyflyer then.

I love my GTi

[birdman robert]

Hi,
It is very difficult to say which one would be better for you!!
It depends on many factors like; type of your body, experience, maturity....
The true is that the GTi is way easier to fly than Skyflyer. Also,for W/S beginner will be easier to perform good transition from exit fall to fly mode with GTi. Cause of that fact many jumpers getting feeling that they start to FLY earlier.
This is not true. The beginning of fly depends on :
1. your ability to make perfect exit
2. Your weight ( If you are heavy , your stall speed is higher and you will start to flay later) This fact you can't really change immediately, no meter how much you'll practice . It may be change by reducing your weight :(( Hard in US with non fat food all around :))

I personally recommend to BASE jumpers to start skyflying with W/S GTi type!!
It is safer , more forgiving, less stressful and still offers great flights.

Best regards
Robert
www.bird-man.com


Best regards
Robert
BirdMan inc.

[imported_badenhop]

Now that's advice you can live with.
Thanks Robert.

[birdman robert]

Don't get me wrong, It is safer and more forgiving for novice BASE W/S jumper!!!


Best regards
Robert
BirdMan inc.

[birdman robert]

Hi M.K.
from all my flights and research I can say that the W/S Skyflyer is at least 30 % faster and slower in vertical speed too. Also,very important!!!
The FLY TIME is not important the distance is important!!! For excample there is no way to fly over the creek with GTi or Classic while w the Skyflyer this becoming the standard to get there within 50'' for me :)))

Hope to finally see you some were !!!
I'll be in Fl and AZ in December


Best regards
Robert
BirdMan inc.

[Yuri]

Yo !

>For excample there is no way to fly over the creek with GTi or Classic while w the Skyflyer this
>becoming the standard to get there within 50'' for me :)))

If you are talking about Arco, Classic flies over the bar just fine ;-)

Seriously, there are so many variables in the suit fit, body etc that it's hard to predict how it will fly for you until you make a bunch of flights. My older Skyflyer exactly matched Classic, but the newer one (slightly looser fit and bigger wings) performs roughly 15..20% better. Right now i can start Skyflyer and Classic about the same, while my older Skyflyer did take about 1 second more to get flying. I believe the main reason is the older suit was too tight - it seems a bit looser fit is better.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[birdman robert]

Hello Yuri,
I agree Yuri, many factors play role in flight characteristics. What I am trying to say is that in general Skyflayer giving you better performance. This suit is harder to feel and fly and more compex.
Also , this goes to every suit, the measures has to be OK too.

I know you have made super flights in Norway and Arco. The time were nice, over 60'' in Arco , that is super cool, in contrary Skyflyer covering the same distance in 50'' and opening were over the road above the creek at 200m height. This clearly shows that the Horizontal speed is much higher.
The point is that unfortunately jumpers have wrong perception about what is important in BASE w/s flights. The easiest way to judge and separate the good from bad flight is the time which flyer spent in the air. This is wrong the more important issue which tells you for real if your whole flight was good or bad is the distance you covered. If we follows that rules it is irrelevant if some person is light or heavy, like flying under canopy, Heavy guy will be faster than lighter but they will Lend at the same spot ( in no wind condition)right!!! As I said previous, wingsuit will start to fly when you reach the STALL speed. This depends ( on perfect exit ) only on weight. If you are heavier the stall speed is higher. In other words, two jumpers performs perfect exit, lighter will start to fly sooner!!!

[Yuri]

Yo !

I absolutely agree that the distance flown is the only important measure of a good flight. However the time is much easier to measure precisely so it gets used a lot, since base jumpers love the numbers ;-)

Funny, the same now applies to non-wingsuit big wall tracking, where the best trackers get higher glide ratios than lousy wingsuit fliers ;-)

>I know you have made super flights in Norway and
>Arco. The time were nice, over 60'' in Arco , that is
>super cool, in contrary Skyflyer covering the same
>distance in 50'' and opening were over the road
>above the creek at 200m height. This clearly
>shows that the Horizontal speed is much higher.

In my case, Classic and the old Skyflyer had exactly the same horizontal (and vertical) speed. Classic was crossing the road around 55". My new Skyflyer has a much slower vertical speed, while the horizontal is about the same as Classic. The same suit flown by Lukas would go much faster, both horizontally and vertically, while maintaining about the same glide ratio. By the way, how can this be explained aerodynamically, since we weigh about the same ?

bsbd!

Yuri.

P.S. when are you arriving in DeLand ?

[birdman robert]

Yuri hi,

I'll be in DeLand from Nov.29. till December 5. Not much time, because after I am going to AZ.

Yuri the most common mistake in W/S flying is Wrong Angle of the Body position. Angle of attack should be good. However this depends on many factors such weight, Ct, Cg.. etc..
Often flyers keep the shoulders to much up together with head and also knees to much down waiting to get the feeling of slow fall instead of the feeling of smooth forward speed and lift. This type of flying is fly near stall situation and ofers you nice slow verticall speed but givs you no nice forward movement.
Comparing w Lukas , non of you were probably flew the suit in super optimum position( I havn't see the video, but I was in touch w Lukas a lot before he died). Lukas was fast but was sinking more than he should, while you Yuri ( my opinion) flying suit in near stall position which giving you nice ff time but for sure this way of flying killing some of the forward speed.
All in all, you have great potential to improve your forward speed even though you already fly the suit fantastic

All this problems I explain this to Jeb when we meet in CH. Maybe would be good 4 you to talk w him.

Hope to see you finally.....
Best regards
Robert
BirdMan

[freeradical]

Hey there Cliff

did you decide on a wingsuit yet? If you want and if your balls and groinal area return to their usual size and color, you aree welcome to try out my wingsuit, it is called Skyflyer and it is made by Birdman... it should fit you. your friend
jt

yup thats rite JT... i got a sweet set of wings from a guy named James
later cliff!!!