AM Antenna

[MT]

Does anyone have any experience of getting onto an AM antenna without getting fried? The power of the antenna is okay.

I read on the ABA site a story in which a guy jumps onto one, don't really fancy that idea although would be interested in hearing any other views on this or any other method.

[guest]

was specifically told by good authority that "jumping onto the am antenna from the ground is a valid way of not getting burnt, the idea being that you have your jump such that you are not in contact with the ground when you contact the antenna. apparently does work but i havnt personally tried yet. i wonder if you make your hop from an insulated item you put on ground next to antenna to make the transition safer...a poor conducter like dry glass, or dry thick rubber, or maybe dry wood. no metal, make sure its dry...careful...

[guest]

Hi MT, please email me.

Have fun,
Bazil
bazair2air@pcisys.net

[jason]

Ever since I joined the "shocked by an AM antenna" club back in 1997, I've employed this trick several times:

1) Bring another jumper along with you who is more daring.
2) Find a wooden rake handle or good size tree branch.
3) Convice friend to touch antenna. Tell them that if they get shocked, you'll beat their arm off the antenna before any major damage occurs.
4) Climb and jump.

It's as easy as that. And believe it or not, it's worked for me!!!

----
jason
base428

[guest]

Hi Jason, that's the funniest thing I ever read, cut it out your killing me!
Beating on your "FRIEND" with a tree stump before he dies from electrocution. That would be a hell of a swing to hit between touch and electrical travel to ground considering the current is traveling at the speed of light.

"I KNOW YOUR KIDDING" but please, someone might take you serious.

It's a good laugh though, I can see it now. Bet it sounds like this...
(attached WAV file 155K)

Have fun,
Bazil

http://www.pcisys.net/~bazair2air/so_long_sucker.wav

[jason]

Dude, I'm not kidding. Wood is an insulator, therefore no current can pass through it. Just ask Sean T. from Hollywood about how I convinced him to touch our local AM tower whilst I waited with wooden rake in hand, ready to assist. :) True story......100%

Hasta folks,
Jason
BASE428

PS. Just heard BASE #645 is out. The evil # is not far away.

[base619]

Hi all.

Look, I did some asking with some people I know who deal with antennas.

What they said was very simple: If the tower wattage is high enough, it will fry your ass while you're stepping toward it, given a short distance. You don't even have to touch it.

The potential difference between your feet, as you walk, will be so high that that alone will get you shocked. In fact, when my buddies were in their studies, they were actually given a question as follows:

"A cow approaches an AM tower radiating at 20KW. How far from the tower will the cow be before it gets shocked?"

And if you guys don't buy that story (because I'll admit myself it's strange), just consider the following:

1) If your estimation of the wattage is wrong and you do get shocked despite insulative measures you take, YOU COULD DIE. AS BASE JUMPERS, YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO DIE BY BOUNCING OR HITTING AN OBJECT, IE. AFTER EXITING. NOT BEFORE!

2) Shocking doesn't necessariay kill you. It can do much worse. When I was in the hospital, there was a dude in my room who got shocked by a live wire. His arm fried below the wrist on the inner side (distal medial arm), and he lost all his nerves and tendons at the burn point. Today he has no feeling in his hand, nor can he flex it. BELIEVE ME, SOMETIMES GETTING _REALLY_ HURT CAN BE WORSE THAN DYING. I'VE SEEN ENOUGH.

I'm sorry for being a party crusher, but this is stuff you must be aware of before you try to do something like that.

base619

[MT]

Thanks guys,

The general feeling is that jumping AM antennas is not advisable unless the voltage is very low and on any antenna high enough to jump the voltage will be too high.

I fancy my meatballs raw and the rest of me warm but not cooked so until I successfully prove that this antenna is frying it's neighbours and force it's closure and hence force it's opening I'll leave it to that poor f***ing cow who got medium rare well before it's time, poor dude!

C-Ya

[guest]

lets try and not take this literally. you need to be careful around these things, but the electromagnetic energy coming off these antennas cannot induce an electric charge (on the level of electrocution) unless the approaching object has metal in it and has a ground available in the circuit. admittedly, alot of base jumpers have metal in them, but the physics question about the cow is a trick question. physics professors always throw them in to get students to think as widely as possible, not like rote machines. the answer to the physics question is "when the cow touches the antenna" , not three pages of mathematics. While this understanding makes am antennas a little safer, i still would not encourage friends to "canary in a coal mine" them for you. cya

[guest]

Sometimes I have to pinch myself to believe what I'm reading here. I hope the advice on equipment and BASE techniques is a little more accurate and a little less anecdotal than the crap written here. Please, if you don't know don't guess. Someone could get hurt.

Electricity travels at the speed of light? Where do you get this #####?

The potential for electrocution by induction requires a much more complex model than most people think. I'm not going to suggest the limits for a particular situation but I'll say this. The only words that have any relevence here are Jason's observation. If he saw it and it happened (and I'm assuming he's not dumb enough to bullshit on this board and risk hurting someone) then that's the best you've got. BASE jumpers are obviously not known for their scientific skills.

If in doubt carry a voltmeter and don't wear nylon underpants.

Good luck & stay safe

[guest]

A few tips about about electricity and AM Towers,
An Italian Friend got arced by an AM antennae in the foot just walking up to the tower on frozen ground when he was still around 2m away.
According to a hand book I read (for Lighting Technicians for Film sets).
If you are to touch suspected possible live sources, do so only with the back of the hand as shock causes the muscles to contract and this would result in you pulling away from the source instead of gripping it (in a vice versa situation).

The SOP for wiring a feed hot, is to stand on a wooden box, with an assistant on standby with a wooden plank, board, etc. to intervene, Also, the one who is doing the wiring normally keeps one hand behind the back or in the pocket to prevent a hand to hand conduction path which would place the heart in the path (which could be fatal at lower (milli)amperages).
Conductivity of the skin varied exponetially from dry skin-sweat-wet-cut skin (with blood), where one could feel only a trickle with dry skin, and die or be close to dying with the cutskin scenario.
hope this helps.
take care,
space

[guest]

Hi Jase, how's life? So far, so good here.

In reply to your posting:
Q: >Electricity travels at the speed of light? Where do you get this #####?
A: School, Jase.

FACT: Electricity travels at the speed of light.

Reader Digest Version: Electrons travel slower than "electricity" (long story). Other factors such as voltage, amperage, current type and other variables (i.e. metal type, moisture, atmospheric conditions, etc.) determine what happens when and where. I don't think it's necessary to go into full depth here and now over the issue of electricity so, I'll leave it there for now.

Next:>The potential for electrocution by induction requires a much more complex model than most people think.

Wrong: I have had SEVERAL friends die from electrocution. It is not that complex. If you put yourself in a bad position with "electricity" or if someone you are unaware of puts you in a bad position the outcome can be very grime.
I have been to the edge of both, for some reason God loves my sorry a-s-s.

I have always liked working around electricity. Like jumping, your thought must include things outside your vision.

Your defense of Jason is noted. I am not flaming him, I simply dispute his method of checking the AM Tower for safe access through his more "daring" friend. I would dispute this method no matter who was using it.

I think you should be as educated about the object your jumping as you are about your gear and canopy skills, don't you?

BASE! The point is to fly, not to fry.

Have fun,
Bazil

PS. Wood is an unreliable insulator.

[guest]

>Hi Jase, how's life? So far,
>so good here.
>
>In reply to your posting:
>Q: >Electricity travels at the speed of light? Where do you get this #####?
>A: School, Jase.
>
>FACT: Electricity travels at the speed
>of light.
>
It may be a fact but It's still incorrect. Electron speeds may approach 1/10 the speed of light but the mean drift speed of electrons is what determines current and this is usually in the region of 1/2 metre per second. Yes half a metre. At school they tell you that Newtons laws are correct etc. You need to go a little further to understand Einstein and why this is not so. Like I said you're using too simple a model.

>>Next:>The potential for electrocution by induction requires a much more complex model than most people think.
>
>Wrong: er... right actually. I said electrocution by induction. Not from touching a live source. You prove quite nicely that the model is more complex than most people(well...you anyway)think. I'm sorry to hear about your friends. Preventing this kind of thing is where we're all coming from.

I don't mean to flame. I guess I just write quickly to make sure I don't lose my ideas and come across as too aggresive.

You can't always explain real world situations by the models which we learn at school. Simple questions turn ugly real quickly without thorough knowledge. For example...If air is such a good insulator, why do we need windows? That may seem a little silly but you don't have to take it much further before people make the wrong assumptions about what they're looking at.

Trial and error in this game hurts. So does bad info.

Skies.

[guest]

Jason said:
"Wood is an insulator, therefore no current can pass through it."

If that is so, I wonder why lightning goes for trees in such a big way?

BASE359

[guest]

...because they're made of.....

bread?? apples?? no.. um.. very small rocks??? cider?? cherries? mud?? churches?? lead, lead!!

water.

c-ya!
Gardner