How do you pack your pilot chute for stowed jumps under 500ft?

[bps]

[bps]

For clarification:

Mushroom -- center line is extended, bridle is contained in the mesh with the zp/f-111 pulled down over it, resembles a mushroom during the pack job

Burrito -- pc is layed flat, bridle is s-folded in the center, then it is folded in half over the bridle and back up again, folds are then to the center NOT crossing the center line of the pack job
__________________________________

I've always used the mushroom pack-job on sub-500ft jumps with the unproven theory that it would be less likely to hesitate.

For any jumps that are higher speed (in excess of 4 seconds) I like to use the burrito.

Well, last week I found myself in a situation that made me think differently. I was climbing a tight antenna with my rig on and experienced first-hand one of the downfalls of the mushroom pack job: the PC has a tendency to slide out if it is bumped or caught on the structure.

On the other hand, the burrito is much more secure.

Has anyone experienced or noticed a higher tendency for a burrito to hesitate at low speeds?

C-ya!

Bryan

[guest]

I had the mushroom get pulled out inadvertently once. Then I got more careful in how I stowed it in the pouch. I find now that if I really sqeeze that wad at the end down and feed (cram) it in, I can minimize the size of that ball of material that sticks out, increasing the tension in the pouch and making it more secure. I had really been babying it before by not trying to insert much of the wad. Also, when I fold the mesh in half, I try to leave it a little short so that it doesn't end up adding to the mass of the wad.

Other people have stated that they have no problems using the mushroom for terminal delays, which indicates to me that there must be a secure way to stow it.

Again, one must balance the risks associated with a premature PC extraction, which you've described, and the risks of PC hesitation.

Remember, risk equals probability times consequences.

I use fall protection when climbing antennae, so even in the event of PC extraction or a dumped pack-job, I will not be pulled off the tower. The worst I'd have to do is cut away and climb down.

Squeeze and feed.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Other people have stated that they have no
>problems using the mushroom for terminal delays,
>which indicates to me that there must be a
>secure way to stow it.

If your PC has a handle (internal or external), you can stow it like a skydiving PC (i.e. just the handle exposed), then use the handle to extract as much PC as you want just prior to exit.

This technique (and variations on it with handleless PC's) have worked well for me in warding off the dreaded "premature extraculation."

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

I have witnessed some scary pilot chute hesitations as a result of people rolling the pc. For terminal jumps I use an elongated mushroom. It ends up about the same dimensions as rolling it. For low jumps (less than 400 feet), I prefer the Super Mushroom. I came up with this about 7 years ago. The pilot chute is laid flat and the center bridle is not extended. It is not rolled, but rather the seam of the outer circumference is brought uniformly into the center. This separates the mesh from the rip-stop. I'll show it to you some time. I've noticed this pc pack job to be more responsive than any other. However, it does take a bit longer to pack. My advice is to NOT use the roll method for low stuff. Also, I think pc handles are ideal for terminal jumps.

[460]

The buritto method stages the PC deployment and results in less PC oscillation but definetly hesitates quite a bit more than other methods. I shattered my left femur because of a significantly delayed opening. The significantly lower opening than expected coupled with an unrelated terrible opening did not give me enough time to deal with power lines and multiple barbed wire fences.

After much trial and error, I followed Yuri's suggestion and have had much success with a different technique: using many short bridle folds and pushing that to the PC-bridle attachment point. The mesh opening should be very small or the bridle will work its way into that cavity between the mesh and ZP. At that point, pull down the ZP and make one fold. I prefer handles - internal or external. The bridle wad works well for securing the handle in a fixed position. Basically, use the wad's thickness to secure it firmly in the sphincter of the spandex pouch.

My experience in frequent low jumps is limited though. (hey i still do them on occasion). My opinion is biased by doing a lot of not-so-low jumps. 700' +. However, I like using this technique even on (now frequent) jumps from 2000' since it opens your margin of safety when opening at less than 300'.

Blue skies, Fu(k Death - Chris

[d-dog]

Yes, I have been guilty from time to time of burrito packing a PC and then jumping it from low (less than 500 foot) objects. I like how neat the burrito looks and when I'm not thinking, I sometimes revert to it. Or, anyway, I used to before I knew better.

I noticed a few PC hesitations from several objects when jumping alone (or jumping last of the crew). But when I jumped a local 440 foot object and REALLY noticed a hesitation that made me want to cry ("great visuals") but fortunately did not result in injury, I asked my more experienced jumping friends. Sure enough, it was the burrito that had been causing my problems on lower jumps.

I now only jump the mushroom, and have most certainly noticed more consistent - and consistently faster - PC extraction than back when I used to burrito occasionally. I consider myself fortunate that I was not injured or killed while using the burrito. As to stowing, I am careful to slide the finished mushroom in all in one piece which takes some fancy handwork but is possible for me. Then, when I am climbing an object I have only the cap protruding. It is only when I prep to jump that I carefully tug out a bit more of the cap and material, which is what I then use for PC deployment. I've not had an extraction while climbing, though I can see it happening and I do think about it alot. A primed rig is only one careless movement from opening while climbing, and we are all best served to remember this from the minute we stow our stash bags and rig up. There's no way to have a primed rig that isn't a little touchy while jumping; I'd rather that than a rig that can't go off early, but takes its sweet time to open after exit!

This (manner of PC folding and stowing) is a serious issue if you jump under 500 feet stowed, and particuarly so in the 250-400 foot range. I spend a good 3-4 minutes packing my PC as part of an overall 20 minutes or so packing in total. I slow down for the PC, relax, and don't rush it - being closed to fininshed with packjob, it is tempting to slam pack the PC and be off. Bad idea, I now know from personal experience. A one second PC hesitation from 300 feet is no joking matter.

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

[460]

Yo!

Ok, Ok, 400 is pretty high, but for sub 300' jumps, it seems to me that going stowed is pretty much dictated by the difficultly of the exit point. Yes, some jumpers do it and are very good at it, but it leaves very little margin for error.

Considering the reduced error margin, has anyone else noticed that heading performance suffers slightly going stowed with a big PC used on these lower altitudes? (personal biased opinion based on non-scientific analysis).




>This (manner of PC folding and stowing) is a
>serious issue if you jump under 500 feet stowed,
>and particuarly so in the 250-400 foot range. I
>spend a good 3-4 minutes packing my PC as part
>of an overall 20 minutes or so packing in total.
>I slow down for the PC, relax, and don't rush it
>- being closed to fininshed with packjob, it is
>tempting to slam pack the PC and be off. Bad
>idea, I now know from personal experience. A one
>second PC hesitation from 300 feet is no joking
>matter.
>
>Peace,
>
>D-d0g
>ddog@wrinko.com
>www.wrinko.com
: : ;-) :+

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Considering the reduced error margin, has anyone
>else noticed that heading performance suffers
>slightly going stowed with a big PC used on
>these lower altitudes? (personal biased opinion
>based on non-scientific analysis).

From my relatively limited experience (perhaps 40 300' or less stowed jumps), no. In fact, I'd say I had better heading stowed than hand held until I started using an upward PC toss. Now, I'd say it's about even.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[Jolly Jumper]

I use the "super mushroom" on high as well as low
and if I have a clamp in hand, its wery usefull for geting the mushroom stowed neetly! I first place the pilot flat down on the floor, then I use the clamp to get a tightening of the top of the mesh, when I have finished the bridle thing I remove the clamp and place it around the top of the mushroom. This makes the stowing much more controlable! The part you grip allso gets more "solid". :x :'( :*

[guest]

I've heard much discussion on the upward toss. What is it?

Also does anyone here use 42" for 300 - 400 ft. I've done it from 380+ and experienced no pc hesitation. I've also seen video with minimal hesitation from sub 300. Bad idea all around?

[obi]

I use the mushroom for all my jumps, even at terminal. A hesitation would kill you if you smoke it. Packing it allways like that makes it easier too. Since I pack with clamps anyhow, I also use one for the pc, just makes life easier. And I tuck it in so it doesnt' come out and then push it out again a bit before exit. Especially on antenna climbs I check the pc every now and then.

Cya, Obi

[guest]

I also use the mushroom pack for all BASE jumps. I can't understand anyone who doesn't climb a tower without the rig in a stashbag, especially if there is an area before exit where one can easily get geared up. We have anti fall off rings around the tower ladders, all that galvanised steel makes for great snag material. In summer time I climb with my rig underneath a stretch T-shirt.

The mushroom pack makes a noticable difference on wingsuit deployments as well.

/Lukas

[guest]

Gabe has video of Indian cave in Moab. All of us had 42" pc's. It's 282'. I think most of us went hand held though.

C-ya:D

[crwper]

I did the Indian Cave with a 40" stowed without problems. However, I have maybe half a dozen stowed jumps from less than 300', so my experiences are by no means statistically significant.

However, I've really begun to question how much difference pilot chute size makes...

Michael

P.S. Sorry, forgot to say I always pack using the mushroom for base.