Knee/ankle/head protection

[Mike]

I wanted to start a discussion regarding knee pads, helmets, ankle braces, and other forms of body protection.

Knee pads: I have a pair, but they have this plastic shell with protruding edges, so I'm not real comfortable doing aerials with them because of the snag potential. I also don't use the spandex sleeve, because it's easier to just use the two velcro straps. However, this makes it more likely for them to fall off, or shift around if/when I actually need them. I believe they are made for rollerblading. Anyone know where to get a decent pair of "tangle free" kneepads that can still take a good pounding?

Helmets: I am interested in replacing my old protec half-shell with something more substantial, although not any bulkier or heavier. Any suggestions?

Also, some things that I don't currently use but wouldn't mind hearing about are ankle braces, body armor, etc. I've heard of jumpers using some kind of light weight body armor (similar to what motocross riders wear?) on particularly gnarly jumps like a low cliff with a rocky talus.

Let's not get into the use or don't-use arguments we have all had with the helmet/kneepad wearing issue. I just want to know what's the good stuff and where to get it.

Thanks,
Mike

[guest]

howdy,
I (every except 1 jump) always used kneepads. They help. I had the rollerblading type. I can't say much for aerials though. Helmet, body armor, and elbow pads.....good idea. I never used them, though I should have. Maybe Slim can tell you how important Body protection is. Sorry Slim, if you don't feel like sharing the experience. But, from what I've heard, seen on video, dress like you will strike it, and then you'll be prepared if you do.
how does that saying go??????
It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

my .02
Thomas:-) :-) :-) :-)

[guest]

Just wear you knee pads, and other padding under your clothes, snag potential solved!!

When it comes to helmet, look for a ski helmet, they are pretty good, not so expensive and come in many cool designs.
Other armor that would be nice to jump with is a turtleback shield that you can buy for skiing or motorcycle riding, it can save you from a broken back if you pound in.

:D :D

[Joel]

When it comes to ankles...the best thing I have run across are called active ankles. They are sold here on Blinc. stop the side twisting and lets you move back and forth.

[web]

if you pound in while wearing knee pads with spandex backs under your pants, the top edge of the spandex can act as a ligature across the tendons above your knees when they get hyper-flexed. if the tendons are damaged, they can separate or tear like a bad hamstring pull, leaving the knee unstable.

tough to say whether the added stability provided by the knee pads would help prevent what might have been a really ugly knee injury in this circumstance, though.

moral of the story: don't pound in!


ps: flat black is a good color for a helmet. if i ever upgrade from my half-protec, i'll probably sand and paint an old factory-diver without visor. that facial protection could come in handy some day.

[crwper]

Bauer makes knee/elbow pads for rollerblading with the plastic shell sewn around the edge rather than riveted, so there's a lot less snag potential if you're wearing them outside clothes. I always wear the elbow pads under a jacket, but the knee pads won't fit under my jeans.

I think there are some really good knee/shin pads made for motocross which can help stabilize the knee side-to-side as well, providing a bit of a hinged joint so movement is easy enough. Anyone have comments on these?

I've heard of and seen the armadillo-type back armor, but I'm not convinced it would make a big difference except to avoid puncture wounds. I'd like to hear comments on that as well.

I think one of the best things you can do for your ankles is to get a good pair of boots.

Helmet-wise, I've been thinking of picking up a full-face mountain biking helmet. Haven't had a close look at them yet, but they seem to be built for impact, and they're light. My friend tried using a motorcycle helmet, and the momentum of the helmet caused his head to hit the ground quite hard. A mountain biking helmet would offer some protection for the jaw area (no face shield though) but wouldn't be so heavy. Thoughts?

Michael

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Other armor that would be nice to jump with is a
>turtleback shield that you can buy for skiing or
>motorcycle riding, it can save you from a broken
>back if you pound in.

I'm not sure this is true. Most broken backs in parachuting result from impact with a single solid surface, not sharp impact across the spine. Armor will diffuse the force of a single sharp impact point (like hitting the top rail of a fence, or a protruding point of rock), but probably won't help with a massive impact (because then the force is just transferred through the armor, and diffused or not, it's still enough to break your back).

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[base311]

I switched to a full-face bmx helmet after paul smashed his face in walker canyon. some people give me schit about it but I just mumble, "fu(k 'em", while others have shown an interest. Some people were concerned that visibility and range of motion would be affected; I have found this not to be a problem as I can swivel my head as much as without the helmet and visibility simply hasn't been a problem for me. admittedly I don't always wear it - deferring to my protec depending on object type, where I'll end up if an uncorrectable or low mal, and what the lz hazards are.. just my decision. I'm using an Odyssey design, but Bell, ProRider, PHK and X-games make full-face designs. As for factory diver, I opted for the chin guards on the bmx helmets because they protrude farther hoping that there would be more distance for decelerating my head prior to impact with chin/object.

as for kneepads.. the bauer ones micheal mentioned are a good idea. sewn-on plastic hard parts. putting them on under clothes is a bitch if you do a lot of tower or crane jumps with gear-up ocurring prior to climb. I wear mine rotated 90 degrees on my calves to avoid them slapping against the ladder rungs while climbing... pain in the ass to adjust if they're under pants.

and for ankle protection: the 'airbrace' I've found to be the best of the braces, but by far the Hanwag Fly 2000 paragliding boots are my favorite. they're worth the $ and will pay for themselves in short order. these boots sell themselves. vertigo is a dealer.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

I'm a big believer in armor. I own, and regularly use, a large amount of protective gear (at a minimum a helmet and knee pads; at a maximum full face with visor, full body armor, paragliding boots, ankle braces).

>Knee pads:

I own several different pairs. The best solution I've seen is the Dainese motorcycle armor (which is basically a pair of tights with armor sewn into it--and it's good armor), that you wear under your pants. It includes hard shell shin and knee guards, and also thigh pads. It is expensive though. You can see it on-line at: http://www.motorace.com/body_safety/body_safety.htm . They also make an upper body piece that includes a spine protector, hard shell elbow pads, and front padding. I did a bunch of research a while back, and this was the best stuff I could find (mostly because it had the hard shells over the pads, which others did not) in the motorcycle world.

The most protective "just knee pads" that I've seen are made by Fox Racing (see: http://www.foxracing.com/products/index.html, and check the "MX" menu). They have several different models, including one top end model that's basically an orthopedic knee brace with armor grafted to it. They also make combined shin/knee guards.

>Helmets:

I alternately use an old climbing helmet (Petzl Ecrin Roc) which offers great visibility and hearing, but not such great protection, and an Oxygen A3 full face RW helmet (opposite problem). I really like the full face for gnarly stuff, and I prefer leaving the visor on (after a close call with a twig bloodying my cheek a few years ago--an inch and a half from my delicate eyeball). However, I'm not really happy with either of them.

I like the idea of investigating motocross helmets (haven't really had a chance to do any research yet), but I'm not sure about snag potential. Skydiving helmets are probably the best designed for minimum snag. I'm also intrigued by the helmets I saw on TV the other day, watching the Skeleton at the Olympics. They look light, full face, and protective. Anyone know anything about them?

>Body Armor:

Check out that Motorace web page (link above) for info on Dainese armor. There are some other manufacturers out there as well, so shop around (the Bohn stuff is really light and comfortable, and not too bulky under your clothes for stealth building access, but not as protective). It's also useful to stop by a motorcycle shop and just ask them. I'd definitely recommend trying the armor on (so you probably won't want to buy it on-line). You might even want to bring your rig in and think about flexibility, if the PC position shifts when you wear the armor, and snag potential.

>Ankle Braces:

Mick sells a couple of different ankle braces (I've had trouble with my ankles, so I own them both). I like the active ankles for ease of use, and roll protection, but the lace up design is often more comfortable for walking around in, and nearly as protective.

If you're looking for the "active ankle" style, you probably want to shop around a bit. I know that Jim Surber had a pair of really nice braces in a similar style (I think they were carbon fiber) at KL, and I liked them better than my (mostly plastic) active ankles.

You might also want to investigate the paragliding boots that both BR and Vertigo now sell. They have built in ankle braces, which can offer additional protection.

Hope this helps.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

I have three sets of knee pads because my first two sets sucked. The latest pair is fairly low profile, they have the plastic shell riveted on. I have no trouble fitting them inside my pants for tracking (they even fit inside my wing suit - Yea!). I also rotate them 90 degrees when climbing the fun stuff and never notice them.
The straps were way too loose, so I sewed and overlap in each strap and they fit nice and snug now.
I saw a guy with a thinner shin/knee pad combination the other evening that looked pretty sweet too.

cheers
MB

[guest]

>I saw a guy the other evening that looked pretty
>sweet too.
>
>cheers
>MB


First porn stars, then hot supermodels who have appeared on the cover of popular magazines, and now it has all come down to this.

And I thought you were checking my leg staps the other night.

Sicko.

RK

[imported_mknutson]

Kudos to you!
Who gives a phuque about what anyone else thinks. This is a sport for yourself, not anyone else.

If someone is concerned about what others think, they need to get another sport.

I saw a guy in Norway who loved to jump with zero knee pads or helmet. H looked very cool when he had a cliff strike. He injured his knee pretty bad, and impacted his face. As a result of his head injury without a helmet, he lost sight in one of his eyes for the rest of his life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Not a phuking joke!

I saw another jumper impact a 400' cliff jump with only 2 cells inflated. essentially a streemer.
He was wearing a full Protec. At the bottom, we found him with knee pads, elbow pads, and a full protec.
He did not break even 1 bone in his body. There was a 3 inch crack in his protec I inspected myself.
If he did not have that helmet, he would have died.

If he would not have had knee and elbow pads, he would have broke many bones.