Gear Choice and Experience Level

[guest]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-01 AT 07:58 PM (PST)[/font][p]Last weekend, I was at a popular legal span in the western U.S. As usual at this object, a variety of folks showed up, with a wide cross section of gear and experience level.

I was disturbed to note that several of the jumpers had no tail gates, and that one of the more experienced ones (for the crowd) had BOTH NO TAILGATE AND NO LINE RELEASE MOD. This means that in addition to having no tailgate, he had routed the control lines through the keeper rings on his risers. This left him with no way to clear a possible line over.

As if to reinforce the lesson, one of the non-tailgated canopies (luckily one with the LRM) lined over on the first jump. Thankfully the (low timer--around 20 jumps) jumper was able to release the toggle, and landed (somewhat ungracefully) on one riser and one toggle. He has sworn, however, that he will have a tailgate installed before his next jump.

I realize that BASE is highly individual, and that we are all free to make our own gear choices. However, in this case I noted two less experienced jumpers being influenced into non-standard gear choices (in this case no tailgates) by the more experienced jumpers around them.

I think this is a GREAT LEAP BACKWARD.

If you are experienced enough to make these choices for yourself, that's great. But PLEASE don't sell them to less experienced jumpers as a good idea.

A student or beginner jumper ought to be using the best possible gear, with the safest possible configuration. In my opinion, this means a tailgate, and the LRM, on every slider down or off deployment.

So, if you are one of those jumpers who choose not to configure your gear in this manner, PLEASE explain to beginners who see your gear that this is NOT the standard configuration.

I am deeply thankful to the jumpers who were impaled on rebar at construction sites, or bounced down antenna structures, then went home and figured out how we could all avoid those experiences in the future. Let's not waste their pain, and let's not have beginners out their re-inventing the sport.

Sorry to lecture. Please feel free to flame me here or via email if you think I'm out of line.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

Amen...And to summarize...There are a lot of stupid phuckin people out there waiting to burn a site! Nuff said.

[space]

Hi T,
I think the LRM is nescessary for the (No/off-slider jumps) over land or dangerous waters. But I disagree with the forcing of the tailgate on everbody. I have installed TGs on canopies, taught jumpers how to utilize them, but I do not use it myself. I think it is on the posi side of developments, It allows one to pack poorly and still get reasonable results.
When I started BASEing, Calcing for a Lineover was par for the course of slider down jumping. Now it´s a freakin mal. The main benefit I can see of a tailgate is the reduction of line burns on the trailing edge of the canopy. If it was such an anti LO device, then it would theoretically negate the LRM wouldn´t it?
Just my HO,
take care,
space

[guest]

yes, but wouldn't it be better to have the line release mod in the case the tailgate fails?

[imported_mknutson]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-01 AT 08:33 AM (PST)[/font][p]I don't think Tom is talking about "Forcing" a tailgate on anyone. I think what he is talking about is NOT forcing "Industry" non-conformity on new jumpers so that they don't learn fatal habits during their early jumps.

I see it all the time as well. A self taught jumper, does what has worked for him for years. Even though he has been jumping in a vacuum, he thinks that his way works, so why fix it?

If the manufacturers are promoting a technology, 90% of it should be taken as "GOLD" by 100% of the jumpers and that is what you/anyone should teach as the standard. If you do not use a tialgate, I hope you have been BASE jumping for several years, and are a VERY experienced jumper. NOT a student.

A student does not know any better. They only know what their mentor is showing them. If you show them a bad habit, they could die from it. Where you may have hundreds of base jumps, and can get out of a really crappy situation, a new(er) jumper can't.
So a bad practice to an experienced jumper, is just poor form. But when a new jumper picks up that habit from looking at that experienced jumper, it becomes hospital time or worse.

[hr]
Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
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[guest]

Hi Space:

I think you are doing exactly the right (and responsible) thing. You teach beginners to use them, you install them, and then you make your own decision, based on your level of experience, for your own gear.

I think that the tailgate is essential for beginners (and I choose to use one on all my own jumps) because it prevents lineovers (where the LRM merely cures them). I agree that if you only had one, the tailgate would be the one to have (in fact, we both know an experienced, reputable jumper who sets his gear up this way every time).

The point I'm trying to make, though is that you are experienced enough to make your own decisions.

I feel very strongly that novices ought to be steered toward the safest possible gear and technique, even when the teacher is not making the same choices for himself.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

As said student trying to learn as much as poss before making my first base. What is an LRM and why is the tail gate better?

[imported_mknutson]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-01 AT 08:34 AM (PST)[/font][p]Line Release Modification. This is were you take the brake lines out of the guide rings, and route them outside the slider. Of course it is highly recommended that you remove the slider altogether for slider down jumps. It is much cleaner to pack, less stuff to get in the way. Now with the LRM, if you have a line over that can not be cleared, you can toss the line over brake, and not spin in.

The tail gate holds the brake lines, 2 "C", and 2 "D" lines at the back center of the canopy for a split second. The helps prevent line burns on the tail of the canopy, and also helps to prevent line overs.

Their is no substitute for packing practice. The tailgate should be thought of as added help to the hard work you put into the knowledge of a nice pack job. If you pack like crap, the tailgate will not save you. If you pack pretty well, then the tailgate is just an added insurance.

The LRM, should be used on 100% of all slider down jumps. No matter if you are planning to land in the water at BD, or land. There have been many people spin into the ground breaking many things, because not having the LRM caused them not to make the planned water!


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Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
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[guest]

Think of the Tailgate as a seat belt... A good idea. Cheap insurance.
It is not however a replacement for functioning brakes or a license to crash into things.

While I'm drawing analogies to automobiles; Remember when airbags came out and many drivers ASSUMED they were a substitute for seat belts and got killed?

The Tailgate is just another item on your checklist of precautions to take. It is not perfect and it is also subject to improper use. The Tailgate will clean up your slider down (off)deployments. It will not make your gear malfunction proof nor will it do anything to rectify a malfuction should it occur. Use the LRM. Use the tailgate. Pack carefully and wait your turn to have a line-over.


Adam Filippino

http://www.crmojo.com

[guest]

I like what Adam said, "Wait your turn for your line over"

When I had a 180 off antenna I was told that there are two kinds of B.A.S.E. jumpers, those who have had 180's & those who are gonna have 180's.

I think it is safe to assume that the same rings true for line overs.

While I may not be the most experienced B.A.S.E. jumper out there I am a rigger (just up-graded to Master btw)& I could see the benifit of the Tailgate & wanted one right away.

When I talk to people about B.A.S.E. jumping (Usually "What do I have to do for Bridge Day?")
I tell them that the minimum thing you have to do is get a big pilotchute. Then everything you do from there makes the jump a little safer. Like getting a big F-111 seven cell canopy, mesh slider, tail pocket, B.A.S.E. rig & so on.
About the only thing I don't strongly recomend on that list is a B.A.S.E. rig But I still tell them that it is a good idea.

thanks for letting me put my 2cents in

Buddman B.A.S.E.#484

[space]

Hi T,
Your statement "Prevents Lineovers" is a bit fwd when persons have (Apparently)had LO whilst still utilizing the system. Also there was an apparent D line over which would not nesc mean that the TG would have been effective in the prevention of this. You didn´t agree with me, maybe my misunderstanding, that The TG would be the one to have instead of the LRM, As for the Exp. Jumper that we know doing this, I hope he/she maintains the morality of the things we agree upon about forcing it on a beginner, which I´m sure he/she must.
I´m interested in how do jumpers feel about Slider up Line overs and what are the most efficient ways to deal with them. Would you start this topic on the board as you seem to be of the objective nature and I not? Out of the 4000 or so jumps I´ve seen in Norway, 3 Slider up LO appeared
2 cleared on thier own and the 3rd was cleared at 60m by the pilot. I do have lots of options to list from paragliding pilots and CRW jumpers, but they do have normally time on their side.
What do ya think?
Adam, "Wait your turn" rocks!!
space

[guest]

I think all these things are a good idea and I use them on all my slider off jumps but it's worth remembering that even using the line mod can prove difficult.

Recently while we were in France a friend of mine jumped a 450 ft underhung wall and had a line-over (he wasn't using a tail gate). He was not able to clear it with the line mod because of the proximity of the wall and the way his canopy was turning towards it so he was forced into holding down the opposite riser and stalling in to the trees below. He was lucky to walk away unhurt although his canopy wasn't so lucky.

Sooner or later as Adam says, you will find yourself in a position where all the kit modifications in the world can't help you and you will be forced to take what gets thrown at you.

Craig

[guest]

yes, i'm sure now even slim and dwain will agree,
there are those that have, and those that will.

[Dwain]

>yes, i'm sure now even slim and dwain
>will agree,
>there are those that have, and those
>that will.

I dont think there has ever been a time that Slim and I would have disagreed. We have spent hundreds of hours discussing the dangers of slider down off-headings on vertical walls. We are in agreement that an object strike is the number one danger for highly experienced, current and knowledgeable BASE jumpers. Both of us have experienced and successfully dealt with bad off-headings on many occasions. However we both understood that no matter how current, experienced or fast we were, we are not good enough to ALWAYS be able to avoid a wall strike given the technology we were using and the possibility of problems compounding.
So we recognized and were fully aware that we were playing a numbers game. As each year passed and we racked up several hundred more BASE jumps, the possibility of a wall strike mounted against us. In response to this Slim continually wrapped himself in more and more body armor. (At the time of his accident he was wearing a helmet, motor cross jacket with elbow pads, chest and back pads, spine and hip protector, full length knee pads and ankle braces - which may have saved his life).
What we hoped was that the technology we were using (and therefore the safety margins) would advance at a faster rate than the numbers game we were playing  thereby allowing us to continue BASE jumping injury free indefinitely. I believe that BR and CR are finally making significant advances in technology (eg. bottom skin vents) which will help avoid object strikes (by making a canopy more responsive to rear riser input at an earlier stage during deployment). Unfortunately Slim was not using this technology at the time of his wall strike. Perhaps it would have made a difference for him, perhaps not.

As Buddman so accurately stated: & there are two kinds of B.A.S.E. jumpers, those who have had 180's & those who are gonna have 180's. However just because you were successful at dealing with serious off-headings on one, ten or a hundred occasions, that is no indication that you will be successful in ALL future situations you will encounter. Nobody is that good given the current technology, and that scares the ##### out of me (but not enough to stop jumping or even to back off from pursuing the envelopes). Make your choices with your eyes wide open (even though ignorance is bliss).

Thats my lecture for the day on safety&(I feel so tainted - anyone for a low pull comp?) :P Tom B, Yuri, Tom A, Chris, Arne, Pete F, Bill L, Rick P, Nik ....anyone?

[guest]

Hmmm. What are you doing later this week?