my accident report...............

**Mac** · October 29th, 2004, 05:05 AM

I have questioned whether to post this. I wonder if its worth doing and whether people read it and learn from it, i question whether people think I am trying to grab attention, or whether its worth putting injury reports up so the media get their hands on it and say "these guys are mad"

I am hoping what I have written is something I have written and at least one person says "mmmmmmm"

I would be interested in what others say about the way I have tried to report my accident, I would also be interested if you think reporting an accident like this is beneficial............

I would like to hear your thoughts about my accident in anyway............

I expect some negativity from posting this, and realise I aint the first person to ever suffer a BASE injury - I just hope I have conveyed my thoughts about my injury enough to have someone question something..............

Oh well, flame away.............

Gus937 · October 29th, 2004, 06:56 AM

Mac why do you think people will react negatively? Most, if not all, of the details are already out there. You've had a lot of free time recently to post them

.

Kudos for the self evaluation anyway.

I have a question about the actual accident: did you discover what caused the brake to hang? Freak accident? Design flaw?

Gus

**Mac** · October 29th, 2004, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gus937

I have a question about the actual accident: did you discover what caused the brake to hang? Freak accident? Design flaw?
Gus

It was not a design flaw. I have spoken to other people about this and some have also experienced a break setting hang up (hang up whilst the toggle was released) and there are various thoughts on how and why this may happen.

My general findings on my gear, is that

a) I perhaps needed more testing to find my ideal toggle settings.
b) I was not used to the gear I was jumping
c) I fu(ked up
d) new gear needs some more breaking in before doing "nil room for error jumps"

In the end, I can only say I fu(ked up.............. I got hurt and it was my fault.......... I was breaking in my new gear and got over confident with my new vents and pins............

What can I say except I was a (unt that night..................

audacium · October 29th, 2004, 08:07 AM

Just guessing, but I think the most common cause (and what happened to me as well): If you do not pull the brake lines far enough down (esp. with the deep brake setting) the line just remains stuck on the loop (used for the brake setting). This is especially a problem with thick loops. In the first moment one is quite surprised because the canopy looks normal and you have slack on the brake line, so you do not feel as if you are pulling down the line...still the canopy turns...
But once you experienced this you do not forget...just pull completely down to free the brake line completely from the loop...

But of course it might have another reason.

Thanks for sharing your accident report with us, Mac.

Eduard.

fl · October 29th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Hi Mac,

in my opinion it's great that you share your learned lessons with the
community.
You said:
>I have also lost my job due to my accident and time taken off work.
Is it because you got fired or because you physically can not do
your work anymore?
If it's the first case, which arguments had your boss?

Best,

#928

**Mac** · October 29th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by audacium

Just guessing, but I think the most common cause (and what happened to me as well): If you do not pull the brake lines far enough down (esp. with the deep brake setting) the line just remains stuck on the loop (used for the brake setting). This is especially a problem with thick loops. In the first moment one is quite surprised because the canopy looks normal and you have slack on the brake line, so you do not feel as if you are pulling down the line...still the canopy turns...
But once you experienced this you do not forget...just pull completely down to free the brake line completely from the loop...

But of course it might have another reason.

Thanks for sharing your accident report with us, Mac.

Eduard.

I agree, I am sure this is what happened to me, but being at such a low alitude on opening, I am sure you can appreciate the problems with this.......

**Mac** · October 29th, 2004, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by fl

You said:
>I have also lost my job due to my accident and time taken off work.
Is it because you got fired or because you physically can not do
your work anymore?
If it's the first case, which arguments had your boss?

Best,

#928

I am an accountant, and the reason I lost my job is that when asked by my MD and FD if I was ever going to parachute again, I was truthful and said "its what i do", they told me they could not allow me to continue with the company if I was to continue parachuting.

I am in the process of discussion with my lawyer about the financial pay off they have offered, as they have acted illegally and we are weighing up whether its worth taking them to court for unfair dismissal or to accept the offer they have made.

Injury is not just about a broken leg..............

**Tree** · October 29th, 2004, 09:11 AM

Hey Mac,

I think that its good to post these kind of details, as well as your synopsis of what casued the accident. It is only through this kind of sharing of information that people (newbies) learn not to do the same things.

My thoughts on this are that the conventional wisdom on what constitutes a "low" jump has changed drastically in the last couple years. When I started freefalling below 300' was considered low. I now see people making 250' and lower jumps in their first dozen jumps and act as if its just any other jump. The perception of newer jumpers seems to be that becasue other people are doing it regularly, I can do it too. Sub 300' freefall is always going to be more dangerous than higher jumps, and below 250', and especially freefall below 200' is really BASE roulette.

In your case it is the chain of events (as always) rather than a single problem. New, untested gear, an extremely low obeject that was much lower than previous experience (from 3 x 300' to 1 x 270' to 210' = too fast progression) and pilot error caused by over amping on the toggles after a balls low opening. Most likely the toggle hang up was not gear related. The popular toggle systems in use today have nearly 10 years of good performance under their belt when stowed/set properly.

Again, I applaud the sharing of information. You may have just saved the next guy from a similar fate.

Tree

**Mac** · October 29th, 2004, 09:18 AM

In your case it is the chain of events (as always) rather than a single problem. New, untested gear, an extremely low obeject that was much lower than previous experience (from 3 x 300' to 1 x 270' to 210' = too fast progression) and pilot error caused by over amping on the toggles after a balls low opening. Most likely the toggle hang up was not gear related. The popular toggle systems in use today have nearly 10 years of good performance under their belt when stowed/set properly.

I would just like to correct you, the previous experience was only on my new gear, I had many other jumps in the 200 - 300 range from various objects including B's, A's, S's and E's, on my previous gear which was a velcro and unvented canopy. So in my eyes my progression was not too agressive or too fast, in fact I would say I was reasonably experienced in the lower (sub300) range of freefalling.

The experience you quote, was the experience on my new gear.

Many thanks for your thoughts though, I will respond next time I am on........

Cheers!

**Colm** · October 29th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mac

I have questioned whether to post this. I wonder if its worth doing and whether people read it and learn from it, i question whether people think I am trying to grab attention, or whether its worth putting injury reports up so the media get their hands on it and say "these guys are mad"

Thank you for sharing!!

My career field has institutionalized methods like this. The aim is to spread accident information and "lessons learned" in an objective, non-retributional manner. IMHO it's an absolutely essential process, which has undoubtedly saved more than a few lives, and a lot of money.

I like the way you set the stage and provided contextual background. I'd only ask for more detail on the specifics of the hangup and impact, if you're willing. It sounds like it was a turn to the right, when you went to raise the toggles, is that correct? Was it a result of simply not pulling the toggles down far enough initially, or was it more complicated, or was it impossible to tell? Did you have time to try to PLF, or otherwise attempt to absorb the impact? What kind of boots were you wearing? Did/could other body armor play a factor in this jump? Can you remember any positive reactions you made that might have mitigated the outcome? That's a lot of questions, I know...

What do people think about an new reporting forum, centered on objectivity? Maybe anonymous posts could be permitted. It could be beneficial to jumpers everywhere, if more people took advantage of public forums to voluntarily share incidents like you did, Mac... even if the outcome was just a close call. In fact, I'm fairly surprised it's not already established somewhere.

Reading more reports like these might lead a newbie (like myself) to reconsider an exit, wait for a better situation, seek more training, etc etc.... Maybe more experienced people will eventually start noticing trends that have been overlooked in the past. Who knows what could come of it.

What do people think? If you see problems with it, what solutions do you see?

Mac, thanks again for the thoughtful post!

Colm

audacium · October 29th, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mac

I agree, I am sure this is what happened to me, but being at such a low alitude on opening, I am sure you can appreciate the problems with this.......

Sorry, I did not mean to say "next time you know better for sure". As pointed out by others and by you the hangup _together_ with low altitude and maybe some other factors contributed to the accident. My own experience was just that once you had a hangup the "body-memory" learns to always pull down the toggles completely, at least I hope that it works this way and that it is deeply engraved now in my automatic reactions...

I hope your healing is continuing fast! All the best wishes.

Eduard.

evilivan · November 1st, 2004, 05:02 AM

As Mac got such a positive response, I have done my own report using his format. I'm not entirely comfortable posting it in a public forum, but will happily email it to anyone interested (whose name I reckognize etc etc...).

Send an email to: evilivan <at> hotmail I will attach it to my reply.

Play safe

Ivan